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My alligator is about 6-7' in total length and over the past months to a year I have noticed that his front teeth are now pointing out. I have seen this in many crocs at zoos, and in pics. He does not seem to be hitting the walls of his enclosure and there is no damage to his mouth. His diet is about 90% whole prey (rats, rabbits, etc) with some cooked chicken, etc.

Does anyone have an idea what would cause this?

john

You know the subject of short snouts, messed up teeth is rather puzzling.

Let me ask a question, is the animal kept indoors or out?

My alligator lives indoors. His enclosure is getting quite small but not to the point that he can't move about or hitting the walls, etc. In fact he will be moved to a new larger enclosure in (I hope) about 3 months from now.

I really don't think in this case it has anything to do with skull length. Everything looks as it should but the front teeth are starting to point out at an angle, not up. Other than this he is in perfect health and doing quite well. I have had him since he was about 2 feet, and it has been about 5 years. He has seen at least 2 different owners prior to me so I don't know his age exactly, but I would guess about 6 or 7 yrs old. Today is feading day for him and he will be getting chicken (whole).

I'll send some pics as the new enclosure goes up.

John

Captivity is known to stunt the growth of the crocodilian's skull in terms of overall length. I theorize that this phenomenon in turn directly causes the teeth to malform, most especially on the front of the snout, but it is not uncommon for the teeth on the sides of a captive to splay somewhat too. Regardless of an ideal diet or of natural-like environments this tooth malformation is common and does happen.

I have a couple of theories as to why this may occur in captivity: One, lack of the necessity of having to occasionally crack turtle shells may play a direct role in an underdeveloped skull. And two, lack of a proper, lengthy hibernation each year where the skull may continue to develop and lengthen while the alligator is in a deep winter sleep and the rest of it's growth is in a suspended state.

Just a couple of thoughts. I have considered inventing (remember I wrote it first!) a simulated turtle shell that can contain balanced foods for captives and running a large test group of Mississippiensis being fed in such a way that they frequently have to break into the hard, simulated shell to get at their food, to see if this does not lead to proper skull development. While simultaniously running a large captive test group in a captive environment that simulates harsh winter seasons each year period.

>>My alligator is about 6-7' in total length and over the past months to a year I have noticed that his front teeth are now pointing out. I have seen this in many crocs at zoos, and in pics. He does not seem to be hitting the walls of his enclosure and there is no damage to his mouth. His diet is about 90% whole prey (rats, rabbits, etc) with some cooked chicken, etc.
>>
>>Does anyone have an idea what would cause this?
>>
>>john
-----
"Sure,... you say that now. But what will you say when you are looking into my dark, merciless eyes." [Walter Wego]

"Charlie won because we never knew where he was. We had superior numbers, but he had stealth, patience, and sheer determination to prevail. We lost the moment we decided to engage, only it took us 10 years to lie down and die." [General Enevi Tability on the Vietnam war]

Captivity is known to stunt the growth of the crocodilian's skull in terms of overall length. I theorize that this phenomenon in turn directly causes the teeth to malform, most especially on the front of the snout, but it is not uncommon for the teeth on the sides of a captive to splay somewhat too. Regardless of an ideal diet or of natural-like environments this tooth malformation is common and does happen.

I have a couple of theories as to why this may occur in captivity: One, lack of the necessity of having to occasionally crack turtle shells may play a direct role in an underdeveloped skull. And two, lack of a proper, lengthy hibernation each year where the skull may continue to develop and lengthen while the alligator is in a deep winter sleep and the rest of it's growth is in a suspended state.
Just a couple of thoughts. I have considered inventing (remember I wrote it first!) a simulated turtle shell that can contain balanced foods for captives and running a large test group of Mississippiensis being fed in such a way that they frequently have to break into the hard, simulated shell to get at their food, to see if this does not lead to proper skull development. While simultaniously running a large captive test group in a captive environment that simulates harsh winter seasons each year period

This is an interesting thread. One thing I have noticed in zoos around the country is that the the cement and tile exhibits that are usually small and sparsely furnished even if they are outdoors seem to have a much higher rate of tooth deformation in their crocodilian inhabitants than the more natural exhibits with earth ponds. This could be because they are able to dig around in the more natural enclosure or because crocodilians kept in natural enclosures generally tend to be more active in a zoo enviroment then those in the previously mentioned small tile and cement outdoor enclosures provided they haven't suffered "zoo burn" previously. Or indeed it might well be none of the above. I don't think turtle shells have anything to do with preventing it if for no other reason than the fact that a large percent of the outdoor exhibits I have seen seem to be full of turtles of all sizes regardless of if its a natural exhibit or not. But I could be wrong and regardless its an interesting theory and as far as I know Brian you said it first. I also don't think it is caused by lack of proper hibernation because tooth deformation is often seen in other tropical crocodilians as well. Dwarf crocodiles particularly come to mind, as almost all the adults I have seen have had it to some degree. By the way Brian I'm not putting you down and if you see something wrong with my "educated guesses" or disagreements I am always glad to learn. Again good discussion.

Seth

But I could be wrong and regardless its an interesting theory and as far as I know Brian you said it first.

No offense to Brian, but this is not a new idea - Mason Meers presented a talk and paper on this in 1996 - here is the link:
http://utweb.ut.edu/faculty/mmeers/res/gatorheads/index.html

I also don't think it is caused by lack of proper hibernation because tooth deformation is often seen in other tropical crocodilians as well.

This condition is very common in captive common caimans. Looking at the inside of the mouth, it doesn't appear that the teeth are splaying as much as the entire mandible is turning out and there is a convex appearance to it. When they are really bad, (even worse that the one in the photo), the mouth doesn't close all the way down. I've gotten these guys in but don't have history on them to compare husbandry for clues.

Bill

That's an amazing article Bill. Thanks for posting the link. This is incredible and even validates my turtle shell theory which I originally came up with in the early 80's. Though I did not see anything about creating a synthetic turtle shell (this is what I actually stated in my original post as "my idea" that I "thought of first" if you go back and take the time to read it). But this article is terrific in it's detail and goes into incredible depth such as this part:

[Excerpt from article]
Indeed, biomechanical stress and strain are known to induce bone remodeling, and the simple fact that captive alligators are usually fed diets of nutria or dead fish, and very rarely any live prey, implys a lack of biomechanical stress which likely affects normal crocodilian morphology.]

In better words than I was capable of describing my own "turtle shell" theory this perfectly describes in greater detail what I was attempting to say. Thank you so much for posting this Bill. (I saved it to my files to re-read several times, it is so fascinating.)

>>But I could be wrong and regardless its an interesting theory and as far as I know Brian you said it first.
>>
>>No offense to Brian, but this is not a new idea - Mason Meers presented a talk and paper on this in 1996 - here is the link:
>>http://utweb.ut.edu/faculty/mmeers/res/gatorheads/index.html
>>
>>I also don't think it is caused by lack of proper hibernation because tooth deformation is often seen in other tropical crocodilians as well.
>>
>>This condition is very common in captive common caimans. Looking at the inside of the mouth, it doesn't appear that the teeth are splaying as much as the entire mandible is turning out and there is a convex appearance to it. When they are really bad, (even worse that the one in the photo), the mouth doesn't close all the way down. I've gotten these guys in but don't have history on them to compare husbandry for clues.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Bill
-----
"Sure,... you say that now. But what will you say when you are looking into my dark, merciless eyes." [Walter Wego]

"Charlie won because we never knew where he was. We had superior numbers, but he had stealth, patience, and sheer determination to prevail. We lost the moment we decided to engage, only it took us 10 years to lie down and die." [General Enevi Tability on the Vietnam war]

I bet Meers origionally thought of this idea in the 70's. Funny how Brian is always right, check out some of the other forums. Be sure to let us know when your "invention" materializes.

You bet, I'll post pictures of the prototype/s. But I don't think Meers' theory was even based on turtle shells. I poured over the whole article word by word and never found anything about turtle shells specifically. His theory on stunted skulls and wild alligator skull development simply alluded to "live prey" versus nutria and prekilled fish, so I may be way off mark with just "turtle shells". But it's still a very interesting article if you take the time to read it.

Thanks again to Bill for posting it.

>>I bet Meers origionally thought of this idea in the 70's. Funny how Brian is always right, check out some of the other forums. Be sure to let us know when your "invention" materializes.
-----
"Sure,... you say that now. But what will you say when you are looking into my dark, merciless eyes." [Walter Wego]

"Charlie won because we never knew where he was. We had superior numbers, but he had stealth, patience, and sheer determination to prevail. We lost the moment we decided to engage, only it took us 10 years to lie down and die." [General Enevi Tability on the Vietnam war]

Brian, actually Damon.

I have contacted you before in regards to several questions/ideas/posts you have on the forum.

I would like to extend my offer again to pay your facility a visit and directly examine your claims/operation. I have been around the nation looking at facilities both private and public for a book Dr.Britton and I are putting together. Your information may be useful to many hobbyists if it can be confirmed.

You said you were in California in a private email to me. It is no problem for me to fly out on a weekend and get a look. If it's ok with you.

My question is though, how do you keep crocodilians in California legally? Or have you moved?

I am flattered and honored that you might consider my work for one of your books. I still live in California, but my crocodilians are in another state. I am not, however, interested in any such meetings or examinations. Thanks anyway.

>>Brian, actually Damon.
>>
>>I have contacted you before in regards to several questions/ideas/posts you have on the forum.
>>
>>I would like to extend my offer again to pay your facility a visit and directly examine your claims/operation. I have been around the nation looking at facilities both private and public for a book Dr.Britton and I are putting together. Your information may be useful to many hobbyists if it can be confirmed.
>>
>>You said you were in California in a private email to me. It is no problem for me to fly out on a weekend and get a look. If it's ok with you.
>>
>>My question is though, how do you keep crocodilians in California legally? Or have you moved?
-----
"Half of my enemies are dead.... I have yet to meet the other half." [Ghengis Kahn]

"He was such a sweet boy, always so nice. He used to help me take out my garbage every Friday." [Jeffery Dahmer's neighbor]

"Sure,... you say that now. But what will you say when you are looking into my dark, merciless eyes." [Walter Wego]

"Charlie won because we never knew where he was. We had superior numbers, but he had stealth, patience, and sheer determination to prevail. We lost the moment we decided to engage, only it took us 10 years to lie down and die." [General Enevi Tability on the Vietnam war]

Thats a shame Damon as if you have something to offer why not share it?

A simple visit and talk may be beneficial to many involved in the hobby if your ideas prove out.

Well,.. two reasons Chris:

One,.. I HAVE been trying to share what I have learned and discovered for quite some time now, be this about environment/interaction conditioned docility, diet/environment related development, posible social capabilities and many many other things. Since day one none has been well recieved by the "experts" or the status quo. Not only has it not been recieved, it has at times been shunned, mocked and outright ridiculed. (reminds me of Copurnicus and Galileo). I have friends that I have known since the 70's that recognize my work and studies as valid. This is enough for me for now. I don't need to try to convince some self proclaimed experts that I don't know, or even like much in order to feel recognized or accomplished. Heck, I know this on my own.

Two,.. I have been planning for decades to write my own books. I have just been waiting for what "feels" like the right time. When I feel that I have learned enough and understand these amazing animals as much as I can possibly understand them. The time is certainly near. So why on earth would I want to share all of my work and findings with a couple of other guys working on their own book so that they could publish what took me decades to discover and learn?

So, with the second reason in mind it is in my best interest that you consider me as an uneducated, loud mouthed quack that doesn't know what he's talking about,

There will be no visits to my facilities.

>>Thats a shame Damon as if you have something to offer why not share it?
>>
>>A simple visit and talk may be beneficial to many involved in the hobby if your ideas prove out.
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Believe in yourself and your abilities and you can accomplish anything.

Brian/Damon/whoever: On the other hand, by posting all of these "facts" and accounts of the hundreds of animals in your posession without ever backing any of your statements up with even a simple picture, it certainly draws questions about your legitimacy. To the occasional observer, your posts COULD be the ramblings of a professional "internet junkie" with a wild imagination.

This post is hilarious. You come in here and post challenges and doubts as to me and my credibility and or claims. Yet you have only posted twice (under this bogus screen name) and both times directly in this thread concerning, indirectly, me. You have not posted anywhere else (under this name "greensnake", which you clearly made with the sole intention of coming here and posting incognito). Why don't you save me a little time and post the name that you usually post under? I'm sure others would like to know who you really are.

No hard feelings my friend. You shall still recieve a Christmas card from me.

>>Brian/Damon/whoever: On the other hand, by posting all of these "facts" and accounts of the hundreds of animals in your posession without ever backing any of your statements up with even a simple picture, it certainly draws questions about your legitimacy. To the occasional observer, your posts COULD be the ramblings of a professional "internet junkie" with a wild imagination.
-----
Believe in yourself and your abilities and you can accomplish anything.

Damon,

You have made the simple quite , well, bizarre. Reminds you of Copernicus? Oh my. Your thoughts are given the weight any thought on the board has, that is is just that until some provable evidence is received.

You have been planning for decades, well publish and let us read the work. Sharing is the ultimate goal.

you said:
'So why on earth would I want to share all of my work and findings with a couple of other guys working on their own book so that they could publish what took me decades to discover and learn? '

For the same reason other hobbyists,professionals, and zoos do, the improvement of the animals plight in our care. If you think you will be in any way rewarded with fiancial riches for the publishing of a crocodilian book you are mistaken. But for those interested in these animals the SHARING of information is much cherished. Most researchers will allow you to put their work in a book so long as you site them as a source. What exactly would you be losing? What exactly would we be gaining other than knowledge to share with others.

you said:
'Two,.. I have been planning for decades to write my own books. I have just been waiting for what "feels" like the right time. When I feel that I have learned enough and understand these amazing animals as much as I can possibly understand them. The time is certainly near. '

How do you study animals that are in another state when you are in California?

you said:

'There will be no visits to my facilities. '

It's your call Damon. Your 'facility'. Nobody was trying to persecute you here. I thought you had some interesting thoughts. When someone has something interesting to offer I personally would like to see how and why they think that way. Call me crazy, I'm inquisitive. I will say of all crocodilian keepers I have met, you are the very first EVER who was not willing to allow for a visit. But like I said, it's your call ultimately.

Enjoy your day

CDieter

I will have to agree with Chris on this situation.To me it is loud and clear that Mr Greensnake does NOT have a facility,because if you did you would be willing to let other people visit,or you would have some pictures.

Mike

Mr Greensnake is Crockofsheetus incognosis,.. and I am Crocclaimus BrianDamus

>>I will have to agree with Chris on this situation.To me it is loud and clear that Mr Greensnake does NOT have a facility,because if you did you would be willing to let other people visit,or you would have some pictures.
>>
>>Mike
-----
Believe in yourself and your abilities and you can accomplish anything.

Look,... Chris,...

No offense to you or your fellow, highly esteemed herp brethren.... but I have no need to prove myself or my achievements to you or to anyone else in this forum or any other. But most especially to you as well as a few other individuals that come off as experts because they have read lots of "other folk's" published literature. Personally,.. I think a backwoods yokel can learn more about these animals crouched in the water hyacinths for a week studying them, than from cracking open a big fat zoology book and reading it from cover to cover. (a bit of an exaggeration, but I think (hope) that you get my point. probably not though, I should be realistic)

You allude here that my goal is to reap "financial riches" for publishing my own book/s. You couldn't be further from the truth. Money has never been a priority of mine and it never will be. I am just sick and tired of books being filled with inacurate and misleading crap. So many books are simply reworded, perpetuated disinformation of some ancient idea or concept that was an inacurate assumtion of an ignorant mind. My goal is to put out one of the first books, if not the first, that is 100% reliable and acurate.When some future kid pulls my book off the shelf and cracks it open he won't be misled. To do this I have to start from the ground up. I can't just plagerize other crap books to write my own. And that takes time. Lots of time. So I spend decades studying, learning, and observing. Running test groups. I post a few of my findings here only to be shredded and have a bunch of people who might have kept one gator in an aquarium for 6 years and views himself as an expert ridicule my claims and demand proof and pictures. It is utterly absurd. But the bottom line here is that I really don't care what you or anyone else thinks of what I write or claim. I am not in this for any recognition either. Any books I write will be under psuedonyms,.... much like some other books I have already written. These will not be my first by any measure.

Think I'm a quack for all I care. But there still will never be any visit.

Now,.. I would like to end this lengthy post on a good note. Have a great day and I wish you well in your own literary endeavors. Best of luck to you and your colaborating colleagues. There are no hard feelings here with me. Just a mild difference of opinion. Happy herping to you.

(p.s. one test group of juvenile mississipiensis showed a DRAMATIC flaring of teeth after only a 4 week period in cramped and slightly more stressful conditions (near other animals with nowhere to hide) yet while kept in adequate temperatures, under artificial sunlight and maintained on a balanced diet. Other test animals which were fed less and given no simulated sunlight, yet had night time and a stress free and spacious environment showed zero tooth deformity in this period of time. After being re-entered into a larger, less stressful environment this test group's teeth straightened over a period of about 6 months. Age: 3 mo at beginning of test. Duplicate this study and see the results)

>>Damon,
>>
>>You have made the simple quite , well, bizarre. Reminds you of Copernicus? Oh my. Your thoughts are given the weight any thought on the board has, that is is just that until some provable evidence is received.
>>
>>You have been planning for decades, well publish and let us read the work. Sharing is the ultimate goal.
>>
>>you said:
>>'So why on earth would I want to share all of my work and findings with a couple of other guys working on their own book so that they could publish what took me decades to discover and learn? '
>>
>>For the same reason other hobbyists,professionals, and zoos do, the improvement of the animals plight in our care. If you think you will be in any way rewarded with fiancial riches for the publishing of a crocodilian book you are mistaken. But for those interested in these animals the SHARING of information is much cherished. Most researchers will allow you to put their work in a book so long as you site them as a source. What exactly would you be losing? What exactly would we be gaining other than knowledge to share with others.
>>
>>
>>you said:
>>'Two,.. I have been planning for decades to write my own books. I have just been waiting for what "feels" like the right time. When I feel that I have learned enough and understand these amazing animals as much as I can possibly understand them. The time is certainly near. '
>>
>>How do you study animals that are in another state when you are in California?
>>
>>you said:
>>
>>'There will be no visits to my facilities. '
>>
>>It's your call Damon. Your 'facility'. Nobody was trying to persecute you here. I thought you had some interesting thoughts. When someone has something interesting to offer I personally would like to see how and why they think that way. Call me crazy, I'm inquisitive. I will say of all crocodilian keepers I have met, you are the very first EVER who was not willing to allow for a visit. But like I said, it's your call ultimately.
>>
>>Enjoy your day
>>
>>CDieter
-----
Believe in yourself and your abilities and you can accomplish anything.

I have no clue what you are speaking about, you responses iindicate some bizarre form of prosecution complex. I just wanted to see your results firsthand. I never insulted you or defamed you and I get strange borderline neurotic responses.

I have no differences of opinion with you..........I don't know your opinions enough to really say one way or the other.

You said:

'No offense to you or your fellow, highly esteemed herp brethren.... but I have no need to prove myself or my achievements to you or to anyone else in this forum or any other. But most especially to you as well as a few other individuals that come off as experts because they have read lots of "other folk's" published literature.'

>>>I contemplated not replying to this as to defend oneself against such statements of stupidity gives it merit BUT..... if that is what you think I or the 'others' do, well that is very sad. I live in the heart of gator country, within 20 miles of my house are hundreds of wild alligators that I have observed for years. This is not to mention the captives I keep of various species. hmmmm my group of Nile crocs would be amazed by your ignorance. But then again we at the forum only read others work........as if reading is a horrible thing.

Personally,.. I think a backwoods yokel can learn more about these animals crouched in the water hyacinths for a week studying them, than from cracking open a big fat zoology book and reading it from cover to cover. (a bit of an exaggeration, but I think (hope) that you get my point. probably not though, I should be realistic)

>>>> I might not disagree, and since I and most on this forum have done just that for years if not DECADES by your own definition we are 'experts' whatever that means. I don't think anyone on here considers themselves an expert, I know I don't. But we all want to improve the care our animals receive. That is why I find your responses puzzling. Most here put the animal first. Your pathetic attempts at insults aside, which i will not address.

. My goal is to put out one of the first books, if not the first, that is 100% reliable and acurate.When some future kid pulls my book off the shelf and cracks it open he won't be misled. To do this I have to start from the ground up. I can't just plagerize other crap books to write my own. And that takes time. Lots of time. So I spend decades studying, learning, and observing. Running test groups.

>>>> Great, doesn't change the fact you could let others have a look along the way. Why oh why must we be stuck with the work of Pooley when we could have your enlightenment? Does it never occur to you that a book that is a compilation of many different thoughts and ideas may be useful to CAPTIVE animals and their keepers?

I post a few of my findings here only to be shredded and have a bunch of people who might have kept one gator in an aquarium for 6 years and views himself as an expert ridicule my claims and demand proof and pictures.

>>>> How do you know what the folks on this board keep or don't keep and how they do it? You assume alot. ALOT of folks who come to this board keep many, VERY big animals, and yes some are beginners. It's a forum for everyone who likes this group of animals. And why would the thoughts of a beginner have less merit than yours, or mine, or Bill's or Adams, or whoever.

It is utterly absurd. But the bottom line here is that I really don't care what you or anyone else thinks of what I write or claim. I am not in this for any recognition either. Any books I write will be under psuedonyms,.... much like some other books I have already written. These will not be my first by any measure.

>>> Give us an example please. Shouldn't be hard, when I was writing for the reptile magazines I met most of the writers in the field. I also have many many herp authors, and I can think of 1 offhand who has used a psuedonym, this is rarely done in any scientificly slanted work.

I don't think your anything, quack or otherwise. I simply asked for a visit and you respond with VERY ignorant attacks. If it makes you feel better go ahead, attack. But be assured I was not attacking you, I honestly wanted to give you the oppurtunity to share with a larger community. But again it's your 'facility' so you can invite who you want.

CD

I guess I don't blame you for being upset. And yes, I am coming off as pretty defensive. Yes. But for good reason. Since day one in this forum every time I post something about crocodilians that is outside the box I get hit from all sides with criticism and ridicule. I am sick of it. And you are close with many of the people that were doing that. Plus, you and I have had our strong disagreements in the past. If you don't understand up to this point then there is no reason for me to try to explain anything any further. I recognize futility when I see it.

As far as I am concerned I feel that it would benefit the forum as well as one another if we just don't post to one another any more. I'm sure that we will meet one day at a reptile related event. Until then, happy herping and no hard feelings.
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Believe in yourself and your abilities and you can accomplish anything.

I'm not upset. I don't take this stuff that seriously. I don't know you, you don't know me. That was the entire point, to verify information.

I don't remember disagreeing with you in the past. I post my thoughts based on my experiences and move on. If you thoughts and opinions are assailed, give evidence to the claim, otherwise don't expect anyone to take it on it's value from an internet board post.

The FACT that I wanted to visit and verify actually means I may have thought something you said was worth looking into. But alas no more. As I said your 'facility'.

If you cannot have a normal internet posting conversation without resorting to defensive diatribe than you can choose not to comment. I WILL continue to comment on issues on this board irregardless of who posts them. I can do so without emotion. How you take it is up to you. If you say something and the board asks for confirmation of strong claims.........well what do you expect?

Sometimes we are right, sometimes we are wrong.

CD

Brian, I have a couple of questions about this statement: (p.s. one test group of juvenile mississipiensis showed a DRAMATIC flaring of teeth after only a 4 week period in cramped and slightly more stressful conditions (near other animals with nowhere to hide) yet while kept in adequate temperatures, under artificial sunlight and maintained on a balanced diet. Other test animals which were fed less and given no simulated sunlight, yet had night time and a stress free and spacious environment showed zero tooth deformity in this period of time. After being re-entered into a larger, less stressful environment this test group's teeth straightened over a period of about 6 months. Age: 3 mo at beginning of test. Duplicate this study and see the results)

Just curious...
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All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream.

due to lack of details about all aspects of the "test".

Personally, I've seen many tanks of baby gators both at pet stores and also at an agricultural research facility, all indoors, all in crowded conditions and all there for well over a month,(in the case of the ag facility, over two dozen in a 6 foot long x 18" (approx) wide stock tank for over 4 months and being fed on hog renderings), that did NOT show ANY indication of teeth flaring. That is not to say Brian is BSing, but rather that there may be more to it than what was described in his post.

Without being able to repeat the tests with the same results from multiple clutches from different genes, documenting the actual population density and documenting all of the other variables that come into play, a statement such as this is anecdotal only. Scientifically, it's of little value other than to perhaps prompt someone to do actual controlled experiments.

My opinion anyway

Bill

I think,it has to do with the crocodilian being inside,instead of being outside.I have had many crocodilians,and the animals I have kept outside,didn't get their teeth where they stick out to the side.I have had some of my animals get this way,when they were kept inside.I think it has to due with receiving the right amout of natural vitamin D-3.The light bulbs they have out today do okay,but it still doesn't take the place of natural sun light.Even tropicl species that are in canopy forests need sunlight.I have dwarf croc's and they bask all the time.
Mike