Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was hoping if I got some blood work done on Ojay that you would be willing to look it over and give me your opinion. Ojay just hasn't been himself since before he started brumating (6 months or longer). His feces have been checked and he's clear. We did run a mouth culture on him and he came back positive for pseudomonas. That was treated with a round of meds - I think Baytril. I'll have to double check my notes at home. Could be Ciprofloxacin. Ojay refuses to eat any greens, veggies, etc and will only occasionally eat a superworm, silkworm, or cricket. He used to be a great eater, up until the last 6 months or so.

I treated him with acidophilus after each dose of meds. He will eagerly lick up Pedialyte, so keeping him hydrated isn't a problem. The weird thing is that he hasn't lost that much weight with the little bit that he eats. And when he poos, about once a week, it's a very small amount. The urates are usually twice the amount of the dark brown fecal mass. When I say small amount, I mean that the entire fecal pellet will fit on the face of a dime.

Thanks for any help with this. Maybe having the blood work isn't the way to go... maybe another mouth culture???

Thanks!
Veronica
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Beautiful Dragons

i've posted s few times bout my little girl rusty, she has been off feed fro a a month now, her fecal came back negative, and i've been tryin everything....can't seem to figure our whats worng, she also drinks pedialyte without a problem....have u tried giving her turkey baby food???????if not then u can feed her gerber baby food turkey....use a syringe and put some on her nose, if she dosen't eat it get her to taste it and then she probably will, this is the only thing that has been keepin my declining 168 beardie goin....please keep me posted if u have any breakthroughs with ur beardie

thanks

glenn
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1.1 Beardies (Spike and Rusty)
0.0.2 Corn Snakes
1.0 Chineese Rat Snake (Chino)
2.3 Kenyan Sand Boas
1.0 Eastern Chain King (Spot)
1.0 King Rat Snake
1.0 Tarantula

This is too weird. I have a male dragon doing the same thing. Treated him the same way you treated yours to the T. Just had a fecal done Saturday and nothing showed. He eats nothing, but has not lost much weight. Started force feeding him baby food Friday.
I'm very interested in the outcome of his blood work.
I'll keep checking back.
Take care,
Karen

just curious about a few things

Basking temp
cool side temp
how many hours of light
how much light
do you use UV, if so what kind
what food do you offer, what times of the day
substrate
has anything changed in the past 7 months
how do the fat stores look (tail, head and belly)

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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

I need to be kept on track just like everyone else. By your asking shows that you really care. Thanks!

Basking temp is 99 - 102

Cool side 75 - 78

Lights are on from 7 am to 9 pm (14 hours of light)

Use two bulbs - Capture the sun (100 watt) and a 60 watt regular household bulb to keep temps a bit warmer.

UV - Capture the sun

Food - Offer a mixed salad every morning consisting of a mixture of dandelion, escarole, endive, and mustard greens. Offer fresh green beans, occasionally a shredded carrot, mango, papaya, occassionally an diced apple, sometimes some grapes. Their diets change every week. Those are just my common food items. There are more, but too much to list. Also, I give my adults Rep Cal pellets 1 - 2 times a week. Ojay loves live prey - he will gobble up super worms and wax worms, but sometimes likes crickets. I know he has an appetite because he loves the live foods. Maybe he's just a really finicky eater???

Substrate - green indoor/outdoor cage carpeting.

Anything changed recently? - Yes, about 7 months ago we moved to a house. He hasn't been the same since. But he was in a moderate traffic area of the apartment and he's still in a moderate traffic area of the house. He doesn't have a view of any other beardies. But he acts restless like there's a female just outside his cage and he's trying to get at her constantly. Maybe I've just got one horny, finicky eating dragon! HA

Fat stores - good on the head, no hip bones showing through by the tail. Tail looks good. When the vet saw him last, a little over a month ago, he didn't know what else could be wrong because he is hardly losing any weight. He will eat applesause or baby food from a dropper and he loves Pedialyte. So he stays well hydrated.

Any ideas Bennett? Thanks!

Veronica

>>just curious about a few things
>>
>>Basking temp
>>cool side temp
>>how many hours of light
>>how much light
>>do you use UV, if so what kind
>>what food do you offer, what times of the day
>>substrate
>>has anything changed in the past 7 months
>>how do the fat stores look (tail, head and belly)
>>
>>-----
>>Bennett
>>
>>
>>
>>www.beardiedragon.com
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Beautiful Dragons

a change of location/housing can sometimes put off even the best eaters. Not that you are wrong in what you are doing but some things you might want to try as different dragons like things different and they do change their likes and dislikes...

>>Basking temp is 99 - 102 Raise to 105-110

>>Cool side 75 - 78 Raise to 80-85

Heat can be used to increase appetite but be careful of dehydration.

you may want to throw in a regular florescent to increase the brightness as that may also stimulate appetite and activity.

Finicky is possible. Try soaking some adult rep-cal Beardie pellets in cranberry, grape or OJ (no sugar added) until they get nice and soft. You may want to try hand feeding them. Otherwise just leave them in a bowl by themselves, salad offered separately closer to the end of the day. you may also want to put the pellets on a spoon. It seems as if they are attracted to the shiny stuff. Bright color plastic may work too.

Try 2 extremes. Try a color TV. Noise and movement may stimulate or intrigue him. Or put a cover like newspaper or cloth so that he cannot see out at all, no distractions.

If you go the second route, you may want to try isolation. put in fresh food in the morning, cover the cage and have no interaction all day. Take the food out at night.

JMHO for what its worth. When you make changes, try it for a few days to a week. Don't try to many changes at once.

Good luck

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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

If you end up doing bloodwork I would ba delighted to look at the results for you as well. Hopefully, it is just the change of location. Good luck, keep us posted. BTW How is your uro?
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Stacey

Thanks for offering to look at the blood work results for me. I may hold off a little to see if any of Bennett's ideas work.

The uro's aren't any better. They are on day two of Clavamox. A reptile specialist in my area emailed me with the idea of giving them Clavamox (amox. with something else added to it to make it effective). They haven't had any adverse side effects. My vet will be back in town next Monday and can take a culture for testing. By then I should know if the Clavamox works or not. What do you think about Clavamox? Thanks for your help sweetie.

Veronica
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Beautiful Dragons

Clavamox is exactly that, amoxicillin with Clavulanic acid. The clavulanic acid is a beta lactamase inhibitor (one of the defense systems of some types of bacteria). So it helps the amoxi do it's job without the interference of the beta lactamase.

Enrofloxacin is effective against a wide range of gram negative organisms and the Clavamox is effective against some gram negatives and some gram positives. Most cases of reptilian pneumonia are caused by gram negative organisms (Mader, et al)and are treated with fluoroquinolones (like Baytril) or aminoglycosides (like Amikacin).

Usually in cases of resistant pneumonia Clavamox is used in combination with other drugs with a broader spectrum of activity like Baytril (enrofloxacin) or Amikacin but, since there has not been a culture yet we don't know exactly what type of organism we are dealing with. I see nothing wrong with Clavamox per se, but I am glad to hear you are planning on doing the culture.
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Stacey

Those are all wonderful suggestions. It's like he's been trying to tell me something for the longest time and I haven't been able to figure it out. Hopefully by making a few small changes over the course of a few weeks I'll be able to figure this guy out. Thanks for all the wonderful suggestions. I'll keep you posted.

Veronica
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Beautiful Dragons

This is probably not the case in your situation... but as I read through this post, it reminded me alot of my own situation. I also moved to a new house right before brumation 6 months ago. I brought my guys out of brumation by increasing their light time by 3 hours a few weeks ago, and went through about the same things you are. I hadn't worried about the loss of appetite during brumation. AND... I also have Red Nigerian Uros, who got sick right before that. It took me forever to figure out what was going on, but I finally did. #1 - the new reptile room has only one window, the old one had three.... so I increased the brightness in their tanks by adding regular flourescents. THEN... I realized since the new herp room was right next to the laundry room, it was increasing the humidity ALOT in that entire end of the house. That was what had caused the problems with the uros. Now that I have all that fixed, things are back to normal. My suggestion would be to think down to the tiniest detail what changed in the move, and try to recreate whatever might be missing. Good luck!!!

weather has been wacky this year and they are all offf and one food and being lazy now.

I would take Bennetts suggestions and try them and see what happens, if you decide on a blood panel, I have several normal and abnormal ones here to compare them with... remember, if he is off food, your going to get some eratic readings anyway due to that alone and it may not indicate a problems, but normal low readings when they are not eating well.

Also, most times you see other symptoms and the blood panel is an additional guide..... ex:

Beardie is bloating or eyes drooping and the blood panel shows elevate uric acid levels = Renal problem... but does not tell if if it is an active increasing problem, on one that is improving.
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www.reptilerooms.com

I'll try some of the suggested that Bennett made. I've been having so many problems with lately. He's just so different than the rest of my beardies I just automatically thought that there has to be something wrong with him. Thanks for the advice.

Veronica
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Beautiful Dragons

You know Cheri, I think you are on to something with the weather. One of our oldest herp patients, a California Desert Tortise born in 1964 that is still with his original owner :0, came into the animal clinic today. She said in his 40 years she had never seen him act like this. He was doing the same thing that we are seeing with these beardies and it reminded me of the posts last night. Well after a fecal, an x-ray, an ultrasound and bloodwork the vet hadn't found anything. I mentioned the weather comment you had made last night and he said he agreed. That he had probably seen more herps so far this year than he ever has. Just thought ya might find that interesting.