Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello Frank,

I was following the threads and was curious how you get good growth on your colubrids. Sounds like whatever you are doing is working very well and I would really like to hear more.

Regards,

Keith
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weyty n/m

First, I explained clearly the approach I took with the larger kingsnake, compared to the smaller one. Again, it seems you should re-read the posts you respond to. Please do not take offense, but its clearly there.

Second, Its not about methods, its more about reptiles and their abilities. It seems people like to have things, one way, and thats the way it is. The problem with that is, reptiles do not do that. They are indeed reptiles.

Reptiles all have a range of abilities, in all their tasks. They can grow to a range of sizes, produce in a range of conditions with a range of results. This is normal and part of being a reptile. All the above applies to one individual with one set of genes.

Reptiles and the populations they live in, respond directly to the conditions nature and man provide. For instance, do populations around watered and planted fields have the same results as populations out in the desert? Or do the populations during an extented drought have the same growth and reproduction as those after extended wet years. Or after fires or floods that reduce competition? Or eliminate prey resources? or cause a bloom of prey resources? Are the results the same after a series of really harsh winters? or a series of hot and dry summers?

Of course not, all those conditions effect the growth and reproduction of the populations effected. Yet, they are all normal.

Reptiles have a genetic potential of both growth and reproduction. The above conditions predict what will happen with the reptiles effected. Results from death to reaching the upper limiteds of their potential are occurred. This is normal.

What reptiles do as individuals is, strive to succeed. They strive to reach the highest levels of success. They do this within the limits of their genetics and the conditions. Do you really think reptiles will turn down better conditions and choose worse ones? Or stop feeding in nature if food and temps are available? Do you think they will choose to stop feeding because they grew larger then they were suppose to?

Back to the question, what do I do. I try to allow them to tell me what their potentials are. Thats my method.

I have wondered and I have asked, why aren't their tons of 8 foot captive raised Pit's(gophers, bulls, pines), as they surely reach that in nature. That question goes for all the species.

Many years ago, I raised record sized(or very near) individuals of many species of colubrids. If the methods used by you and others, are so good, where are these animals?

I do not know you, and indeed you may be a great keeper. But I quickly found out that many here are stuck comparing the potential of their charges to the methods used and not to the animals themselves.

For me, I enjoy seeing and expressing the range of potentials these great animals have. With Kingsnakes, we all know its normal to grow up and reproduce. But what are the limits? and are they normal? Remember, in nature its normal for the vast majority to die within the first few months of life. Their is a whole lot of normal in nature. Cheers FR

Frank,

I think you misunderstand my asking you this question. Its not because I think your full of sh#@ but because I would like to know how you do it. I consider myself an open thinker and learner if someone is doing something different and getting results then Im not a person who would be stubborn enough to NOT try something new hence me aksing the question. I also asked it here to get the topic up to the top as posts become buried fast and are forgotten. I did read the posts under the Cal King pics you wrote about but one thing not mentioned was what temps you used ? Im building a snake room in my basement and im pondering heating do I heat the whole room or run heat tape under a portion of the enclosures etc.... Again I wasnt calling you out but trying to learn thanks.

Regards,

Keith
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Sorry Keith, I do believe I mentioned a temperature range in the begining, but that was way back. 100F to 65F works well.

About your room, only you can tell what to do. It all depends on the condition of the room. If its hot, then cooling in needed, if its cold, then heating is needed, etc. Or if its like here, both are needed.

My favorite room conditions for colubrids is a constant cool room, 55-65F. That way, its easy to provide a controlled range of temps.

Please remember, I have not worked with colubrids(in captivity) in many years. But its kinda like riding a bike or some such saying. Its coming back. At the time, I have a hard time finding a place with a wide enough temperature range. As I am concentrating on monitors, which like it hot. Way too hot for colubrids.

Its going to be fun to re-apply experience from the past and experience gained from other herps.

The one bit of advice I can offer is, listen to the snakes and not the people. Not on all things, but if you have a snake thats doing great, stay away from the folks who try to tell you its wrong. Those folks are common across the board of all endevours. They are very vocal about how you should take care of your herps, and they simply cannot stand anyone doing better then them.(in their minds) So they make up lots of huey.

Its really a simple process, If a snake is growing short & fat, offer higher temps in part of the cage. If its growing like a rocket and its head is a little to small, have no fear, its head will catch up as it ages. Also remember, there are many roads to achieving normal successful healthy adults. And shoe/sweater boxes are not one of the easier ones. Also, many use nature as a guide, yet do not understand it at all. Just think how good your conditions need to be if, your snakes were re-infested with parasites at every feeding, like in nature. If your snakes did that, how well would they be doing? Just a thought. FR

Thanks Frank for the info . Im leaning toward heating the room and using heat tape. In my rack now which is on the ground floor of my house the ambient air temp is 68 and I heat the rack to about 82-83 and about 75-77 on the cooler end. Im getting different things as far as size from different snakes of course. I have a male 2003 hatch GA Eastern thats getting very long but not thick. He is 30" and his sister who is right next to him in the rack is 22" and very thick. Might be the fatc that males seem to get bigger then females usually. I have noticed my snakes seem to grow faster in the rack then when I kept them in seperate enclosures as well??? Anyway great info Im gonna try and apply it and see what happens.

Regards,

Keith
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