Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I dont normally voice my opinion about these things, but this has gotten my panties all up in a bunch. I love albino boas, and it kills me whenever I see someone trying to sell one that is blind. I know it is just my opinion but I had to say something. (maybe it is just me being a jerk) Thats ok though. I was going through the classified and found that someone was selling a blind albino for $1000. It is not really the money to be honest, it is more a matter of why. A blind albino, or any blind snake has, IMHO, no business being anything other than a pet (no breeding, they should all be sterilized as soon after birth as possible) so why would someone pay $1000 dollars for a pet blind albino. Good question. They wont, theyll spend $1000 dollars on a blind snake to breed her, and further pass on a POSSIBLE genetic flaw. This is what makes me mad. I call for all blind snakes, albino or otherwise to be stricken from the breeding programs altogether. I know I will probably get flamed but so be it. Im sorry I just had to vent, or ramble, one of the two.

hi

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Jeff
0.1 Wife
1.2 Kenyan Sand Boas
1.1 Smooth-Scaled Sand Boas
0.1 Doberman
1.0 Pitbull
1.0 Collie

I agree, it should'nt be sold except as a pet.
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Greg Holland
G&M HERPS
www.imageevent.com/gmherps
gmherps@sbcglobal.net

I am sorry that the classifed ad got "your panties up in a bunch". Personally I in good conscience, could not sell a blind or one eye albino snake. I have seen many of these in albino litters. I do think that you came off a little bit too strong about the sterilization. First of all, do you even know if the defect is genetic? Did you know that a lot of the one eye or blind albinos have contracted a virus that cause them eye infections that cause this probelm. I am not saying that all blind or one eye snakes have contracted a disease,it is true that some of it is genetic.
In my opinion the animal should not be sold. I would keep it as a pet.

There being inbred to death.I see one eyed albino's everyplace.It's sickening to me and i will never own one period out of the respect of the snake...Paul.

I personally don't see how owning one would be disrespecting the animal by any means. I do think destroying it would be of great disrespect. It is a living creature despite it's handicap. If I had a one eye albino born within my collection, I would simply keep it either as a "pet" for myself or my children. I would not sell it, nor would I destroy it simply because it could not create profit for myself. There are defects which require euthanasia such as SEVERE deformities, but the lack of perfect vision I don't view as life threatening. I do believe at the appropriate price, the animal may be bought by an individual looking for nothing more than an albino boa to keep as a pet, and in most cases we all know enough people that we could give the animal away to an individual that we could be assured would never attempt to breed it. The world is full of different level hobbyist. We're not all looking to breed our animals, though it may seem this way at times. The point of this thread.....who knows! LOL, anyway, take care!

Paul

It is ultimately up to us as the hobbyist to see that these snakes do not become part of breeding stock. I strongly agree that these snakes would make great pets, just not good breeding stock. True there are all types of levels of hobbyists, however we all still carry the same heavy burden of keeping some sort of standards no matter what level the hobbyist you are.

IMHO

Thanks
Bob

as small eyes etc. They are all in the same boat as far as Im concerned.

Thanks
Bob

The fact is that that they are the result of line inbreeding. If you outcross them with unrelated stock the resulting offspring should all be fine. U are eliminating the birth defects by introducing the new genes into the gene pool. MAny people take the fact that you can line breed reptiles from the same gene pool for alot longer than u can in mamillians without the birth defects showing up. And as a result take the line breeding of a limited gene pool to far. If u breed a wc boa to his daughter u will get all 100 healthy boas, however u keep breeding this male to his own grand and great grand daughters and defects like these will show up. This is one of the reasons i like to do trades or breeder loans of similar animals sometimes so these things do not show up in my collection. Breeders need to trade some breeding stock with other breeders who have the same morphs to ensure new blood entering the gene pool.

You would think breeding a pair of UNRELATED hets would greatly reduce birth defects, but I have indeed seen an albino born to a pair of hets that started off with two good eyes as Mike talked about, and soon one eye had an infection, and subsequently that eye was lost. The albino trait is not generally a desired trait in life, but we have ultimately found a way to "exploit" it. I am not trying to sound judgemental, I have het albino, albino, dh sunglow, so I am just as guilty as anyone else. The fact does remain though that we're dealing with a weaker gene. Occasionally defects are going to happen. Keeping and breeding only the 100% animals should help stabilize the gene as much as possible, but it's still a genetic weakness as I see it. Take care!

Paul

I think you may be over reacting in the thought of sterilizing all 'bad eyed' Albinos. You are right in the fact that the boa is not worth $1000 being completely blind.
This last season Jeremy Stone and I produced a litter of Stripeline Albinos together and two of the Albino offspring had eye infections. They both had two eyes, but after several attempts of treating the infection in the eyes, they each ended up shedding out the eye during a shed cycle. This leaving the boas with one eye each. Now, can you say that they will produce one eye Albinos when bred? They both were born with both eyes. I have also heard of an one eyed Albino being bred to a Het and producing a perfect litter of babies. I just think a little more research may be needed into the one eye or bad eye Albino problem to see if they do produce bad eyed Albino litters. I have talked to Jeremy at lengths about this and he has some good info, maybe he will post his thoughts here also.
Regards,

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Mike Weitzman
BASICALLY BOAS
'Specializing in True RedTails & Designer Boa Morphs'

however it is all becoming strangely familiar to the one eye, small eye, no eye and big eye problems we are currently seeing alot of in the albino burmese pythons. Is it just a coincidence that albino burms are experiencing it too. Albino burms are, and correct me if Im wrong, about 10 years ahead of Albino boas. With this information I can take an educated guess of what we may be in for if we are not very careful with the breeding stock. I am not trying to draw a direct correlation between the two, however, I do feel that this is something very important for all of us as herp hobbyists to consider.
Ill be the first to admit that I do not know everything about everything, but I do know a little bit about some things and I think that is enough to be concerned, at least a little bit. LOL

On a side note, if a snake loses an eye due to an infection and it can be proved that is different. However, what prevents people from using this as an excuse in the future when they in fact breed two no eye etc. and eye deformities occur.

Just some food for thought.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings today.
I hope I did not offend anyone, just a topic that I feel very strongly about.

I aquired a southern scrub python in 98' born with no eyes, and all I can say is that she has been one fine pet! She has never been bred, but I can't tell you how happy I am to own her. I agree that you should not breed an animal that has a known genetic flaw for the sake of common sense, but I don't think there is any reason someone can't have the pleasure of enjoying a great animal (without shame) just because it has no eyes. That said, I would never pay for it, more like adopt it!

np

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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

n/p
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin