Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I need to have a " about " on both. Don't need the numbers for imports, wild caught, breeders,etc. Just around the numbers of the kept and keepers please at this time. I'll do some researching on my own but I would greatly appreciate any help ! I know that this could be kind of hard to do but if I could draw a " approximation " of numbers.......Thanks.

Chambo

You'll never find an accurate, or even remotely close, figure. There are far too many people keeping rptiles illegally that would never be accounted for, simply for the fact that they don't want to be found. Think about the number of illegal reptiles in NYC alone, or the amount of people keeping hots in FL without a permit. I can't see how it could be done....especially when the amount of keepers that are on KS.com is pretty insignificant when it comes to the big picture. You're talking a VERY small percentage overall.

Oh i very well know this...so far I have come up with 7.3 million and 9 million with 4.1 households keeping. So if anybody would...let's go from there. I mean with these statistics...can we add another several million ? I don't know yet. My contentions are to break these numbers down to....well let's wait on this. My questions and findings will be related to our industry and hobby. Thanks

Mike Chambers

Sizzel

Jumping down your throat Chambo.
Asking for a LIST of keepers and their animals.
I know how important this could be politically to organize demographics of friendlies to defend against the evil API , PETA, and HSUS.
I can also see great value from a marketing standpoint.
But can't you see how the typical law forum observer would see this as a list to give the man insight on our personal activities to help them better eliminate us from our hobby?
Goodness Chambo, you are setting a chill up this gals back requesting a poll with such potential for disasterous ramifications.
I don't know Mister Chambers, perhaps with all of this talk about cleaning up the hobby and some person pretending to be a helpful D&Rer you may have forgotten what is important. Our freedom to do what we want regardless.
I guess the only good thing here is the 10 to 15 people that gleen this list aren't enough to provide the poll with adequate foundational information needed to dismantel the underground.
And the fact that nobody agrees with anything anyway helps too.
Also, the fact that no one participates in anything anyway will also be helpful in preserving our way of life. What was that way of life anyway? Oh yes, to preserve our right to be mysterious about our legal dealings.
Well, gotta go. Sorry for not letting you violate my privacy.
Sizzel

the above post about ? All I was asking was for numbers ! You know > as in numbers, digets, counts ! No names, no addresses. WOW ! You have read my original way wrong. Unless EVERYBODY is reading wrong ?

Chambo

Let me simplify it for you:

If your looking for industry stats like numbers of exotic keepers what fraction of those are into lizards/snakes/crocs/hots your would only need it for three possible reasons.

1: Your just wondering.

2: You need/want it for public policy issues. PETA announced on their website that they will be seeking a ban on all exotic pets. The CDC issued a limited ban on exotic mammals from africa and will be considering a total ban due to health issues. Some department in FL was seeking a total ban on exotics to prevent the release into the wild. So of cource if they are pushing for these bans they will want to know what kind of organized defence they will be facing.

3: You need/want it for a business plan/marketing research... Its a hard industry to find exact numbers so your looking for the easy was out.

If your reasons for the collection of that info were a little more open and honest your reaction wouldn't be as hostile. If you need it for #3, I have it already done by a marketing company so if your looking for stats up until 2001 I have them.

to show somekind of numbers of non-recorded keepers that are not aware of ANYTHING in legality of either collecting and or keeping. Mass numbers are to be considered and why this industry has not much of a voice in matters. We talk of industry changes but I see ( of course many other hobbiest of different hobbys have same problems ) if there is a huge number of non-knowledged keepers limited or not, we face very difficult problems. I myself have been involed with : keeping, collecting, wholesale, retail, pet store retail business, import at one time, etc. In my own very small township besides me keeping, there are 7 others ( town population of 600 ). The others have no idea of anything pertaining to laws of any kind and are not affiliated with any clubs, societies, or what ever. These are the numbers that interest me. Of course I KNOW that this would be an exact impossible feat. But at the same time a thought of mass numbers would generate my discussion of a theory and or partial fact. Meaning how many keepers BESIDES the estimated 9 million. Or is this fugure including. #2....how is this 9 million derived at and by what means ( another question that i will ask soon ). Or #3.... can we say that there are another X amount of keepers besides the 9 million. Surley I don't see the guy down the road as included in this 9 million when he's had one single corn snake for 5 years or the person that went out and found a black rat snake and has had it for 3 years. Again estimations are estimations. It seems though that there are smaller and bigger organizations of other animal keepers that are tied and or bound closer or better than we are in what they are keeping. I was thinking of researching to draw a parallel line or conviction of other organazations of animal keeping. i.e.> the dog associations, the cats, the birds, the tropical fish and even the exotic animal associations. Being in the retail for over 20 years ( past ) I KNOW of the above and including the hybrid wolf associations. ( not saying yea or nay on the last one though ). I have far to go though before I post my findings ? , my analysis ? , my synopis ?.

Chambo

I think it's because it hasn't really gone main stream yet. Here in this city there is a bird fanciers club, tropical fish assoc, a branch of the CKC as well as a large horse community. I would easily estimate the number of herp owners larger then the bird club and the riding assoc but for some reason we don't have the ambition to start a assoc. As a large group I do agree we would have more say and sway in political decisions that directly effect or hobby and in many cases our businesses.

Other countries have already open assoc...check out:
http://www.reptilekeeper.co.uk/doyourbit.php