Reptile & Amphibian Forums

There is a post in the Indigo forum about Indigo's being the largest snake in NA. It was prompted by a classified ad saying that N. Pines are the biggest NA snake. What do you Pit guys think ? What is the record length for a N. Pine or any Pit for that matter.

Keith
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Keith,
From what I've heard the Eastern Indigo is the largest colubrid in the US. I have red bulls that are over 8 foot and black pines over 7 foot. I know there are some bigger guys than mine out there. Ron
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"The Crawl Space"

are you breeding your black pines?

yes i will be.. just started to warm them up. will start feeding them a week after they warm up. scapelli the guy that bought Nibbler from me saw them so he can verify their size. Thanks Ron
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"The Crawl Space"

the largest snake that i have heard of was a 10 foot eastern indigo that was found in south east GA.
thad

At the Living Desert zoo in Palm Springs, CA, is a Diamondback rattler that is ludicrous big.
I don't know if it's eastern or western, but it's about 5' long, the shocking thing is it's
width, about 6" wide and 4" in height (an oval cross-section). It is consistantly huge along
it's length so I don't think it was a meal or gravid. I think it may have been just fat.
It's in the "rescued" section so maybe someone had been over feeding, looked like it could
down an adult jackrabbit. Definitely it would outweigh any N.A. snake I've ever seen.

Dana,
They are awesome to look at. The Eastern DB is the largest venomous snake in the US.
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"The Crawl Space"

Keith,

glad to see you over here it is a nice forum with a lot of dedicated people. As far as largest north American snake is concerned, it never ceases to amaze me the numer of 8'+ snakes that when confronted with a tape measure have a tendency to shrink. For the last 30+ years I have offered a 1000.00 reward for the production of a 9' or better Western diamondback out of the valley. I have seen lots of huge 6 - 6 1/2' and 3 honest 7' but nothing larger than that. As far as easterns are concerned I have seen 8 true 7'+ foot animals that were so big they were scary just to look at in length and girth. As far as indigoes are concerned the Texas variety is seen in the 7'+ range on a fairly regular basis, but 8' animals I have yet to see. On the other hand the eastern indigo is long and thick to boot and I personally have handled 30 or so over 8 1/2' and over 5-6"in height straight out of the wild huge animals. Pits on the other hand while very very big do not approach the size and girth of an indigo espicially in a wild caught state. With Bulls, Northerns and southerns probally constituting the larger of the pits, they while being very big and also very girthy(if that is a word) do not come close to the size and length combination of a eastern indigo or the girth of a really big Eastern Diamondback.

Our final thought would be that this is some more contructive marketing if you know what I mean. LOL

Just our observations over the last 35+ years anyway,

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

I have caght to Eastern Diamondbacks that were over 7 feet. One in Appalachicola, Fl. and one in Mobile County Alabama. I also caught one in Quitman Co. Georgia (they are rare there) that was about an inch shy of 7 feet.

I have seen several Eastern Indigos that were over 8 feet and HUGE in girth. I have in my collection now, a male Texas Indigo that is about 7 feet and also a male Drymarchon corais rubidus that is over 7 feet, as well as a female Yellowtail Cribo that is over 8 feet.

John,
I agree some people turn 5 foot into 7 foot but I am more than willing to let anyone measure my red bulls. Actually Chad Fuchs was at my house one night and we held one up to the cellulose(sp?)ceiling tiles. It stretched across 4 of the 2 foot sections. Chad said holy crap its over 8 foot!! Myself and Roberta Byrd measured the black pine at 7 foot 2 inches last year. These snakes are awesome at any size so I don't need to market them that way. How are the deppei deppei doing? Ron
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"The Crawl Space"

I,ve seen in person an eastern diamondback that was well in excess of 6', and it currently weighs 22lbs. The guy that owns it brings it to the Buckmasters Deer Expo in Birmingham every year and charges to see it. It's the largest NA venomous I've ever seen. Just thought I would share.
Matt

The claim on the ad was that the pine was the "largest non-venomous snake in the US". We claim that's it's the indigo.
Diamondbacks have them both beat for total mass hands down.

N/T

Keith, the largest pits are bulls. Alan Tennant records a 8' 6" specimen from Wichita County, Texas captured by Dr Robert Kuntz of Southwest Research Center in San Antonio. He also credits the Sonoran Gopher with a max length of 90", and the Florida Pine at 96".

Conant and Collins cite the max length of the Northern Pine as 83", Florida Pine at 90", Black Pine 76", Bullsnake at 100" and the Louisiana Pine 70.25".

There have been several people on this forum who have recorded animals in excess of these wild caught lengths. My only personal reference would be a Florida Pine I once owned which measured out at roughly 7'10" (and weighed almost 10 lbs).

KB

I would think it very reasonable that wild caught animals with all the variance in food supply, predators etc. would be lacking when compared against captive born and raised animals with an abundance of food, perfect temps etc.. The record lengths of all animals we see in the field guides are for wild cuaght animals to the best of my knowledge. In any case any pit or indigo in excess of 7' is a truly awesome animal that is breath taking when encountered in any cicumstance, but even more impressive in its wild state.

One case in point comes to mind with that comment, two years ago KJ, Camby and I were in the Hebbronville Area of South Texas and saw a 5 1/2' - 6' heavy bodied Western Diamondback that was found while road cruising one night. KJ who is accustom to seeing large pits etc on a daily basis commented on how huge she was in person and also how calm she was. This specie of rattler of course has a real and deserved reputation for being somewhat peppery, but this old lady never rattled as we hooked her and moved her into the center of the road and finally off the road after pics etc. Again proving that generalities when commenting about these wonderful animals never holds true 100% of the time. It was almost as if she knew we were not going to hurt her and she just eased on about her business. A neat memory to say to least.

As far as captive born and raised animals exceding the commonly held records published in different texts I am sure there are many examples.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

Max recorded length of 101".Not nearly as heavy as pits or drys,but still a respectable length.How about coachwhips?I hear they can reach impressive lengths.

Sorry for those of you who are already famliar with this pic, but I have a hard time not posting it when this subject comes up.
This is an 8' eastern indigo weighing over 10 lbs as it was found in SE GA by GA DNR biolgists.

As you can see...they get huge in length and girth in the wild.
This is a huge snake...but we found LOTS of sheds in different regions from snakes of similar size.

Neat picture and as always I am really impressed when you get lucky enough to find a jewel like that in the wild. A eastern or texas for that matter in a cage or deli cup at a show just does not do them the justice I think they deserve. Awesome pic, thanks for posting it again.

Here is another awesome off subject pic. of one of the wonders Mother nature has provided us all with. I don't own this animal, but have a friend that is involved with monitoring the guy that collected the wild laid eggs that produced this true albino and several others from the Texas swamps. A het pool evidently exists down there and man are they pretty aren't they. I can't wait to see them as adults.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

Dean...........luv them "blue gophers"......lol. I know I told you the story of the 7 and 1/2 footer that I found up in that tree feeding on yellow rats up on the east side of Lake Okeechobee. He looked like a motorcycle tire up on a tree limb at first glance. I've seen a few very large bullsnakes out in Texas, but they still don't match the girth and weight of couperi of similar length. Sorry, but that's just the way it is , in my opinion. Now since this question was originally about the LARGEST North American snake, nothing really compares to a large C. adamanteus. Forget about the length issue. I am talking about a snake that will simply awe you by overall size. Back in the early '70's, Louis Porras showed me an EDB that had just been brought in from the Big Cypress Swamp, from a locale that I had just hunted the week before. This snake was supposedly just a bit over 7 feet. The amazing thing is that a 6+ footer that I had collected just a week earlier was in the same pen. This 7 footer simply dwarfed the one that I had brought in. It's head was bigger than my fist, and kinda raised some goosebumps. This locale was pretty remote and required a bit of hiking to get to. If you were tagged by one of this guy's size, that would be all she wrote. I have no idea of what that snake weighed, but my guess would have been well over 20 lbs. The girth was really massive. I would have sure liked to have seen that 8' 3" animal that I believe still holds the record for the largest EDB. Keep in mind now that I am only considering wild animals for this discussion, as you can get some unusual results in captive raised animals. I know, as I look at a monster northern pine every day.............Steve G.

Does it not occur to people that these snakes occur in North America? Their range goes all the way up to Northern Mexico, almost into the US. They get longer and heavier than any other North American snake.

I suppose it depends on where you think Central America begins and North America ends.

Boa Constrictors certainly can get longer and heavier than any Indigo subspecies, but my personal observation is that the northerly populations of Boa constrictor aren't all that big. A Sonoran boa adult isn't as big as a Texas or Eastern Indigo adult male.

I personally own an adult male Eastern Indigo that is 8 feet plus and tops 10 lbs. I don't think that an 8 foot male indigo is any big deal.

If "North America" is everything North of Panama, then the Boa Constrictor is the easily longest AND heaviest that I can think of.

Although I'm definitely an Indigo guy at heart, any big specimen of Pituophis, Drymarchon, Crotalis or Boa is awesome to me.

Doug T

The largest snake in North America is the Indigo Snake, but Bull Snakes come pretty close. I'm not 100% sure but I think the record for N. Pine Snake is around 8 feet.
Michael Fedzen
FREE caresheets on common colubrids

Largest snake by length is the Coachwhip. In 1978 I visited the St. Augustine Gator Farm at that time managed by Ross Allen. While observing the large snake enclosure.(big walk in room) I noticed a very long thin snake inside. I struck up a conversation with Ross as to what it was. He said that it was a Couchwhip captured on the dunes of Beverly Beach Fl. it's length Approx. 11 feet. I don't know if this speciman was ever recorded to the record book but I saw it and what an unbelievable snake it was. Snakeman 56

I think it was a good point to mention the Eastern Coachwhip. This species is verified at 8'71/2" on an old record. I personally caught one 7' 11 1/2" in Lantana(Palm Beach County Florida) in 1978. However they are not nearly as impressive as Eastern Diamonds or Indigos. In 1988 I witnessed a 7' 3" eastern Diamondback killed in s. Georgia. Very impressive. We see Indigos over 7' on a regular basis. Another item.... This was from a very reliable source.(My father and S. Florida Drainage District Supervisors. In 1974 land clearing and canal development was being conducted in Palm Beach Gardens where the "Giant" mall is now. This area and ajecent Frenchman's Creek are well know areas for Florida Pines.(Used to be!) They came across an unknown snake that hissed and rattled it's tail. They caught it with bucket from a crane. It was placed in a 55 gallon drum with two cement blocks holding down the lid. It was photographed and measured next to a trailer. The trailer was 10 feet long and the snake stretched nearly the whole length. They were unfamiliar with the species since most of the species they encountered were inland in the swamps that were being drained. It escaped during the night. It was later identified as a Florida Pine. The pic is still around but, old and of poor quality. I'll see if I can dig it up and scan it. Never the less these big specimens are anomolies. In regards to the boa arguement... That would be considered N. Central America and the Boas in this region average under 5'. Maybe a few 7 footers but, the larger ones occur as you go south.