Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Are Boiga dendrophila(sp?) soon to be regulated as a potentially injurious species, in the states, at least? Our facility has a trio, so this has been a topic of some concern. I could see why, seeing as what other members of the genus have been reponsible for. It has been mentioned that in order to keep them, a separate permit will be necessary, and another just to move them. Are there any keepers out there that may have any insights into this situation? Are there any breeders out there?

WSH

In Florida they fall under the blanket discription of Venomous and require licensing to keep. As far as potency goes, I beleave a FWC has a bigger punch. The only concern on Mangoves is that protracted bite from a very large specimen might have more serious results if it were to bite a child, but I would hardly think it would be lethal.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Thanks for the input, but I was speaking of a potentially injurious animal in terms of ecological impact. Boiga irregularis wiped out numerous bird species on Guam, and some other islands as well. In addition, I think Hawaii is taking measures to see that their 'infestation' does not interrupt the ecosystem by preying on native birds. Laws that would restrict or limit the sale or import of these animals into new places would help to insure that there was no possibility of an escape. So the theory goes, and can be supported by past efforts to eliminate dangerous exotics from lands that have no natural defenses from such animals. Look what pigs, rats and dogs did to the Galopagos! I could ramble on about invasive species, but I think I made my point. Thanks again.

creep

When refering to destructive invasive species remember snakes fall far behind Rodents, insects, pigs and humans. Hawaii has suffered because of all of these....except the snakes.

Actually the Boiga (Guam) situation is hardly a good example of an invasive species in action, because of certain "special conditions":

The first being...The large quantity of prey animals available with no competition from other predators.

Then; add the fact that there are no snake eating predators on Guam, allowing unlimitted breeding success. Hardly typical.

The point being, any large colubrid that was at least partially arborial and fed on birds would have had the same effect on Guam. Our American Black/yellow ratsnakes would have had the same success.

That is why for example: None of these (Boiga) species has ever become established in Florida. We have an ample food supply but the majority of our larger wildlife eats snake as a staple.

Saying a specific Ban on B. irregularus (and the rest of the Boiga sp.)is the solution to this (Guam)problem is ludicrous, which is why I fought that proposal.

Any adaptive species that is introduced to an alien enviroment where food and shelter is available will survive. Which is why the Bramminy Blind snake now has the worlds largest range of any snake.

The trouble with restrictive legislation is that all to often those who create this legislation are either Biased against the animals, or lack the education to properly comprehend the information handed them. The result is Knee-jerk legislation that is more based on prejudice and politics than sense. All too often this results in legislative over-kill (Banning the sheep with the wolf).

Limiting exportation (from an educated viewpoint) would be ideal. But in the world we live in you are not going to get that brand of educated polical altruism. Once on the books, Bad legislation is almost impossible to remove so for the time being at least...No legislation is the better of two evils.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

What you wrote is correct, all of which I was already aware of. It was simply not a point I wanted to flog to death. I agree that a label such as injurious may not have the desired effect.

My question AGAIN: Is that going to happen in the states? Is there going to be such a label placed on the genus Boiga? And will an additional permit system come into effect?

creep

The petition from the Brown Tree Snake Group went before the Dept. of the Interior to determine whether all Boiga (and possibly all Boiga-lookalikes)should be placed under the Lacy Act, which would ban sale, importation and interstate transportation of any included species to anywhere in the USA.

Submission of arguements/comments ended in November. We do not know what the ruling is on that yet.

If inacted-all species covered will be completely illegal to possess (with the possible exception of those that were in possession before the bill passed). There will be no permits issued.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Thank you very much, that is exactly what I was looking for. I'm suprised that this genus will be placed under the Lacey Act, seeing as I thought it only pertained to animals native to the US. I'm also suprised that it would ban ownership for zoological institutions. Once again, thank you for the info.

creep