Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys a little disapointed.. I was really hoping to maybe get my first clutch of baby ball pythons this year, things looked fantastic for a while but now I have no idea what is going on.

My male albino a 2002 snake, around 1000 grams, has bred one of my HET albino females 4-5 times from early October 2003, into the end of December 2003.

During that time, the snake stopped feeding, she started to get really large and the base of her tail started to appear very thick and heavy. Basically she looked like she had a huge meal.

I started fidning her lying on her side, belly up, showing some of the classic signs. I changed her cage over from aspen chips to sphagnum moss.

I misted her daily to keep the humidity up, offering food once every 12 days or so. Still she would not eat, but still looked nice and BIG.

Well she recently shed, and I can tell you from the looks of her nothing is going on. She is not swollen anymore, an in-fact looks a bit skinny because she has been fasting for sometime.

I did not do any special cooling periods before trying to breed them.

Is it possible for ANY reason that she was ovulating or was becoming pregnant, but for some reason just stopped?

Man I'm so bummed out, I thought maybe for sure after seeing the male hooked up with her atleast 4 times, that I might have had a good chance and gettting some eggs.

Today I put my male albino in with another female that he has only bred once. She is around 2300 grams, also a 2001 snake. He seems very interested after taking a 1 1/2 week break from breeding, and I am postive he will breed her again, but who knows if ANYTHING will come of it.

I also decided at this point to go ahead and use one of my HET albino males (he is a monster male 1500 grams) X 2000 gram female, sure I would like to use the male albino, but I'm starting to get deseperate, the few girls I have that are ready, are huge and chunky all 2100 grams.

If you have any ideas or hints, what could be going on please give me a reply. I just want one clutch of eggs FOR THE FIRST TIME ever, this YEAR SO BAD.. Something that will give me some incentive, to keep cleaning and feeding ALL 50 snakes, and all of these rats and mice in my basement AHH!!!

Thanx so much for reading....

Here is a photo of the female, I picked her up and tryed to feel for eggs, but she seems pretty empty, and I did not feel anything.

Then again, this is my first time trying to do this, so I could be wrong..

Just Because a female doesnt "look" gravid doesnt mean that shes not..... Be patient and it will be ok.... if she ovulated and she had her prelay shed and she is in fact gravid you should be able to feel eggs inside of her.........Try to feel for them........ Last season I figured I wasnt going to get anything either.....I got 6 females to lay......dont drive yourself crazy..... 30 days after her last shed she might suprise you.....

Good luck man you come a long way

Raul

They can't really "be ovulating and then stop". Ovulation is the act of fertilizing the eggs and moving them to the oviduct. They don't stop half way through.

They can however build follicles and not ever ovulate. The swelling sometimes looks like ovulation, but its not. I have had females swell up HUGE from follicular development, and then produce nothing because they didn't have enough fat.

My guess is to feed the crap out of her (use live if you have to) and continue to breed the snot out of her. Its still WAY early. Most peopl won't have any ovulations until March, so its not like your snake is doing anything unusual.

Here's a female that built follicles, got huge, yet never laid a single egg:

What was the sequence of events? What was the date of what you believed to be ovulation and did she shed about 3 weeks later (pre-egg shed)?

You stated:

"she started to get really large and the base of her tail started to appear very thick and heavy. Basically she looked like she had a huge meal."

This does not describe ovulation to me. When a female ovulates she has a 'mid-body' swelling that is huge compared to the rest of her body. It also appears as though the fat has been sucked out of her tail and it is somewhat lumpy. The fact that her tail was thick as you described could mean that she was ready to have a movement.

Sometimes our eyes play games with our imagination and we see what we desperatly want to see. I would not have changed her bedding. I would have left her alone. Be patient Damon. Keep breeding her. When you actually do witness ovulation, there will be no mistaking it.

Good luck!

MJ
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http://ballpython.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=242

Copy and paste this link to view a pic of one of my females ovulating.

Markus, would you say that this is a good pic to illustrate the typical ovulating female? (BTW, female did not eat 3 weeks prior to this pic and the swelling subsided within 24 hours. She is now quite normal in body proportions. She shed her skin 19 days after this pic was taken)

Everything looks good. Good luck!

MJ
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I notice that you wrote earlier that you generally (if not every time) observe the ovulation event in your females that become gravid. Have you ever observed a female to continue to breed following ovulation (of course, if you observe ovulation, the why continue breeding trials)? In other words, would you consider it a good indicator that a female has NOT yet ovulated if she continues to breed?

As you stated, why breed after ovulation? I don't. I have bred females the day before ovulation only to be surprised by ovulation the next day, but I no longer breed them afterwards. So I cannot comment on whether females are receptive or not. However, I can tell you that even during the breeding season prior to ovulation, some females continually reject males and then all of a sudden a week later, they are receptive. They can be receptive one week and give him the cold shoulder the next (not that I breed females weekly...I breed them monthly).

So I guess what I'm saying is that refusal of males is very common before ovulation so I don't think that is a good indicator of anything.

I simply breed until ovulation and then stop.

Hope this helped.

MJ

ballpython.ca

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Hi Damon,

I don't know if your girl ovulated or not, but after ovulation the snake feels like there is nothing in there for quite a while. Later, you can feel eggs but the first couple of weeks after ovulation (or even longer), I can't feel a thing.

Good luck,

Christy

I wonder if being able to "feel" the eggs has anything to do with the calcification (shelling) process. Perhaps the "eggs" become more rigid following shelling thus allowing for palpation? Just wondering. The swelling was definitely obvious and a shed cycle followed shortly thereafter... I'll know for sure in another 3 weeks or so. It's amazing how much her girth has since diminished (she looks normal now). I've produced ball pythons 3 times in the past as well as various kings and corns, but never observed ovulation... so it's a bit more interesting now.

BTW, female also went immediately to maintaining a body temp from low 80's to high 80's and low 90's following this event. I'm actually quite sure she's gravid; however, I am curious to hear from someone who has observed multiple ovulations to know whether this photo is a good example or not. I hope that the answer is an affirmative so that my photo could possibly help to serve as a diagnostic tool for others. You know... here is a good example... did it look anything like this?

Damon,

She is probably still developing follicles and by the photo she doesn't look gravid. Their is no mistaking an ovulation........so you will know it when you see it. If you have to say to yourself "maybe that's an ovulation" then it's NOT an ovulation. Their will be no mistaking it.

Most of my females ovulation from March-May. Hopefully you have a couple go for you!

Good Luck,
Corey