Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Pics of nice caudalis, cournuta, xeropaga, and so on. Just a thought. On the subject of Bitis, have any morphs occured other than stripeing? Any of the Bitis would make for outstandig albinos with all the pattern. Please do not misread this. I do not have or know of any albinos.
Wingert

I can't handle any more constructive criticism from you about my photography. There were many posts inquiring about Albino Timbers and I posted a pic. & your criticism was the only response - now my feelings are hurt - LOL. I have a strange Puff I think has some kind of weird genetics I'm trying to prove out. Nothing too crazy though. There is a pic. of an Albino Puff on the back of B. Bechtel's - Variations of Reptiles & Amphibians but I have never heard of anyone working on that project so who knows what happened to it. Same story with the Striped Puff Adder w/ patternless sides - who knows what has happened to these gems?

These are peringueyi a friend got in Hamburg. They were labeled "sand viper", with no scientific. Really incredible little snakes, these photos are taken over about 30 seconds as they buried themselves.

Second pic in series.

...and they're almost gone.
Unfortunately, one of them IS gone. One of the two started on pinks right away, the other never ate pinks or lizards and died after a few months. Of course, that happened when the owner was out of town and I was tending his animals! But it was rather expected, he'd asked me to try and forcefeed it if I thought it looked as though that would help. The first time I went over to check it, too late, dead on the surface.

Those are cool, but I am almost positive they are not B. peringueyi. Thanks for your post.
Wingert

n/p

I am sorry. I do like your pics and it seems you have some of the coolest morphs going. Just wanted to see more pics. I have heard of albino Puffs also but have never seen a pic. I will try and locate the book you metioned. Good luck on all your projects.
Wingert

The Timbers are a friend's. I have better pix but am saving them for a mutation book I'm working on. If you access Maryland Reptile Farms website, they will prob. have the Bechtel book. He's (Larry - MD RF) is a pretty good guy. The Albino Puff (back cover) is a neonate & is bright red & orange - incredible!! The patternless/striped Puff is in a book that Bill Love & William Lamar were a part of called "Amazing Reptiles & Amphibians" (I think?). I am working w/ some really cool - but fairly known - WDB mutations which are some of my favorites. Probably because there are quite a few established to breed to each other to make a man-made morph. I have a Patternless, Albinos (Het. for Caramel), and a Hypo which is pretty neat. I also have some crazy locale "Pastels" that are impressive. I may also try to breed my male Albino Eastern to some big normal females this spring.

Hello.
@ Jolliff,as I know there are all striped RSA Puff Adderes are dead.
Only some "hets" are still at the Snake Park.

@ Viandy
The animals you show are Cerastes vipera from North Africa.

Regards Hans

Well, I don't think that this is the case. The photo must not show it adequately, but these snakes' eyes are oriented towards the top of their head, reminiscent of an anaconda. Also, their eyes are the "topmost" structure on their heads, they do not have a supraorbital ridge / brow at all. I will try to go get a better photo, while still remembering they are (I believe) a Bitis sp. and respecting that fact.
Please realize that I am NOT trying to argue, or not accept the opinion of someone more experienced with these species than I am.
It is that they are markedly different from the Cerastes cerastes that I have, in MUCH more than just the lack of the "horn". While I don't have C.vipera, whenever I've seen them I've had to look for that horn to see, well, if they had it. These are (in person) markedly different at first glance.
Again, thank you for the response. I'll try to get more photos that show the remaining snake more accurately!

..ends in sort of a spur, or hook, probably be termed a "keratinous structure". I don't know if the scales are fused or what, never actually examined it that closely. In my references this isn't mentioned for either the C.v or the B.p, so I don't know if it supports my contention / identification or not. But I remembered it after putting the last post up.

There is little doubt in my mind they are not Bitis. I was looking for some pics for you and ran accros a good link for Dwarf Bitis and other sand vipers. I am still looking for a good close up for you. One other thing that may be of interest, B. peringueyi will only eat lizards as far as I know and are almost never available. I will let you know once I find better pics.
Wingert

I found some more pics at www.swissherp.org/reptiles/viperdae/viperdae.html if this does not work for you go to www.swissherp.com and you need to switch to english and look at pics of viperdae. Still not a great head shot of either but notice pattern. Hope this helps.
Wingert

Hi.
I has kept both spec.
I can see clear from your pics. that they are not Bitis.
Sure they are Cerastes vipera.
By the way, I offered never my Bitis Lizards ect.
They ate from the beginning pinkys.
Here is also a other link,where you can see how Bitis peringueyi looks like.

http://www.vipers-world.net/Arten/Bitis/B__peringueyi/b__peringueyi.html

Regards Hans
Link

Hello again. I believe this picture will show more plainly the features which I attempted to describe. Please note for me the features which distinguish this snake from B.peringueyi.
I did look at both the web sites and wasn't able to see significant differences from peringueyi shown there. Thanks again for your time.

..Also misidentified?

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.pl?photo=130262

Hello.
I can see only a red X

Regards Hans

Hello.
Thanks for the nice pic. from your Cerastes vipera.

Bitis peringueyi and Cerastes vipera have simillar looking.
The Scale´s have no big diffrent.
I´m yust overflow one Book for the differences in Scales.

Cerastes is very common in North Africa.Animals from Aegypt will cost few Dollars there and exported regular to all over the World.

Bitis peringueyi is living in Namibia and Angola.From there is no export at all.Only smuggeld animals get out from there and if somebody sell them ,then for a lot of money.

The last I saw in Germany are offered for aprox. 600 $

Regards Hans

Hello
A source of confusion for me is what seem to be conflicting photos on some of the web sites. On most of the sites C.vipera are shown as looking like C.cerastes only without the horns. The books that I have show this same appearance. But a few of the sites that I've been referencing since this discussion has begun look like the snake I have photos of. To add to it, ALL of the peringueyi photos I've seen have the same eyes as the snakes I'm calling peringueyi, & that some of the C.vipera pics have. One site, zoltantakacs.com, has a snake with eyes that appear almost intermediate in placement between the two.
I was CERTAIN that when you saw the photo I put up last night you would see what I was describing. Well, you saw the photo, what I was describing, and it isn't peringueyi, but cerastes.
This raises the question (for me), what do the ssp of C.cerastes look like? Also, are there ssp of C.vipera, and what is their appearance? Finally, what is it that I generally see sold as C.vipera at the Hamburg show (PA,USA)? C'mon, Joliff, you do that show, am I just crazy, or is the cerastes I've put pics up of like the cerastes usually there?
I do thank both Hans and Wingert for sticking in. It's taken quite a bit to convince me that I'm wrong, but I must be.
Regards.