Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi guys,
I just purchased my first ball python from a pet store 2 days ago. I got a 20 gallon long tank with a heat pad. I have the hide on the side with the heat pad and the substrate surface heat is 85-90 degrees over the heat pad (the hide is right above the heat pad too). On the cool side, the substrate surface heat is around my rooms ambient heat of 65-70. I have the water dish on the cool side. THis setup sound right? I have 2 questions concerning this...

1)When i first got Mitch, i was soaking the substrate brick getting it ready to put in the cage, and the guy from the pet store said I could feed him two hopper mice while i was waiting. SO i found a box, took mitch out of his transportation box and grabbed a mouse. The pet store guy said i could feed him live mice as long as I held the mouse until Mitch got it and constricted it. SO i was holding the first mouse (pet store guy said 2 a week), and mitch grabbed it immediately and constricted it. I was waiting for him to start swallowing it, but he let it go and just sat there...Normally how long does it take for them to swallow or start to swallow after constricting it? Since then, he hasn't even looked remotely interested in the other live mouse or the dead one he killed. I move him from his tank to another box to eat, because I heard that will teach him to know that when he is in there, it is feeding time. I also read that once they get in their new home to leave them alone for at least a week and dont even try to feed or handle them... could that be why he isnt eating?

2) Last night it got really cold in my room, below 60 i would guess. Mitch was curled up in his hide, on top of the heat pad. but the cold side was probably below 60 too. I got my portable heater and turned it on to warm it up to 75 or so. But it made it very dry in my room. Could I use a heat lamp or ceramic heater to keep mitch's cage the right temperature and not use the room heater to get the ambient room temperature? then i could just mist the substrate to get the humidity right...

He seems to be enjoying his new home, since he isnt eating I weighed him to make sure his weight doesnt plummet too much. He is 4.1 oz. Also, how long can i keep hopper mice without feeding them. I have the one live one from when i purchased Mitch, and I still have the dead one too. I feel bad keeping it in a little box like it is, i would like to just get it and feed it to mitch, or get frozen... thanks for your help guys, it is a little frustrating to begin with...

The cool side needs to be 78-82 degrees. So, get another heat pad and set it on low for the cool side, or get a heat mat with a thermostat to control the temp. Also, you didn't mention your humidity. Do you have a humidity gauge?
The pet store guy, well that's another problem. You need to allow the snake to acclimate to its new home before feeding, generally for about 2 weeks. Some people will say just feed them if they want to eat. Feeding live is risky, but in your case it sounds like Mitch was a champ and took the food. Ok, now let him have some privacy. He may have been distracted by you or his new enclosure. Some ball pythons are very shy and distractable. Try feeding at night. After he has constricted and you are sure that the mouse is dead, put a towel over the enclosure or turn off the lights and leave the room. But check back in 5 minutes or so. Sometimes when you think the mouse is dead, well they come back to life like those horror movies. It may take him 5 minutes to swallow or 15 or 30 minutes. It's very individual. Feeding in a separate feed box is a good idea although many people would argue that point. Again, if feeding live, you must be sure that the mouse is dead before leaving the room. If at all possible, get some frozen mice and start trying to get him to eat frozen/thawed, then you have no worries that a mouse will injure your snake.
The live mice you have will live as long as you set-up a cage for them and feed them, if you want to go the trouble. I would recommend taking the mouse back to the pet store for a credit and order some frozen mice off the internet or buy some if your pet store carries them.
Now, relax and don't obsess too much. Take it slow and learn your snakes habits. If he's healthy, he'll probably do fine.

Thanks for your advice! I definitely agree with you about letting him get acclimated to the cage for a while. I will wait a week and try to feed him. Should i jsut throw the dead mouse in the cage and if he eats it good if not, i will throw it out. I know its dead and it cant hurt...

I was thinking about getting a heat lamp to increase the ambient heat of the tank throughout. Does Home Depot have blue or red heat lights do you know? I will try and get a humidity guage too.

Thanks again for the info, I feel I am almost there...

one more thing...if the heat lamp is a good idea, is it better to get a red or blue heat bulb or a ceramic heat element? I would like the red or blue so i can see him at night.

I don't use heat lamps, although some people do. Just be aware that a heat lamp may dry out your enclosure thus reducing humidity. By the way, what's your set-up, glass tank, rubbermaid, custom?

I have a 20 gallon long glass aquarium with a metal screen lid. Cork Bark hide on the hot side, small-medium ceramic water dish on the cool side. He hasnt used the water dish yet, but loves the hide. I think i put too much substrate in because the surface heat was only 80-85 so I dug down a little where the hide was, so he has a burrow under the hide of about 85-90.

a ceramic heating element will probably dry your air up and mess with humidity - but some use it. I use an infrared heat lamp (they're red) on my cool side as the temps on that side drop too low without it. It's a great light for nighttime viewing w/o disturbing my snake.

Try getting your guy on frozen/thawed as soon as possible. The little mice he eats now may not do a ton of damage to him, but imagine the damage a large rat can do.

Setup sounds good - except you need to add a hide on the cool side as well. Good idea to have at least one hide on each side. Also add a branch or two - many BPs like to climb.

What's your BPs name? Got any pics?
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a glass tank with a screen lid will lose heat and humidity through the top. Cover your screen top with duct tape to keep it in. I cover my entire top with duct tape and leave openings for the lights (these openings also provide ventilation).

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Glass tank aquariums with metal screen lids are going to lose humidity through the top. So adding a light may dry it out even more. You can increase humidity by covering the 2/3 to 3/4 of the screen with saran wrap or a damp towel.
You want to create a temperature gradient in the tank; cool side 78-82 degrees and warm side 90-95 degrees. He probably loves his hide because it has the warmth he needs and a hide. Currently, your cool side is too cold and has no hide. I would also suggest that you add another hide on the cool side with a heat mat or heat pad so that he has a choice of hides, 1 on the hot side and 1 on the cool side.
By the way, what substrate are you using?

You guys are great! Your advice is much appreciated. His name is Mitch. I don't have any pics yet tho. He is a normal BP but has great color and patterns. I will probably end up just using a upside down plant pot with a hole in it for the cool side hide. I will get some branches too from the pet store. I am using a substrate called 'bed a beast' I believe. it was in a brick and you soak it in 4 quarts of water and it expands. it works pretty good, but might still be a little wet. I have 1/2 of the top of the cage covered, the warm side. I am deciding between the infrared red/blue heat light and another heat pad... you make good arguments for both. How much of a change for Mitch is it to switch to frozen food? he grabbed the live mouse as soon as I offered it to him the first time, but hasnt touched live or dead since...just wondering...

If Mitch is a young snake, it may not be too hard to switch to frozen/thawed food. Just have patience and work slowly with Mitch. It sounds like he has good instincts to strike and hopefully if you warm the frozen mouse properly, he won't know the difference, but that's best case senario.

Here's some tips on hides:
wwhttp://proexotics.com/FAQ_answers_Hide_Spots.htmlw.kingsnake.com

With a heating pad you really won't have as much of a problem with maintaining humidity as with a light. But like I said, I really like the red light - looks neat at night.

Not too sure about that substrate - I'd be concerned that it might be too wet and lead to RI. I don't know, hopefully someone else will chime in.
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OK - I went to home depot and got a red heat light and a clip lamp housing. I like the idea of covering the whole top and just using a hole for light and vent, kinda like the vision cages. The only heat light they had was 250 watts, is that too much?? I was thinking of getting a dimmer to adjust it, but I am not sure if that would work. So where do I put the light? Over the middle of the cage or closer to the hot spot or cold spot? I am ordering a humidity/temperature guage now. That should solve that problem. With the heat light, does it heat the screen top up much? I agree tho, it will look cool!

Which side you put it on depends on what your temps are on each side, in other words which side needs extra heat - if the light puts off any heat. My cool side temps were too low so I put my light on that side. I am using a 160 watt during winter, but use a 60 watt during summer. Doesn't seem to affect the screen top any.
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Couple more ?'s (if I am allowed any more...)

When I move him to my other container to feed, should i have substrate in that container?? or doesnt it matter?

Thats all for now, thanks again!

Jeff

I don't think it matters if you put substrate in the feeding container. Less work if you don't. I never do and haven't had any problem.

no substrate needed.
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I use the same substrate as you said you use, for my frogs and other amphibians. It may not be the ebst for BPs, since I would think that it could get stuck in the heat pits on their face. I am not sure if this is so, maybe someone else oculd give their opinions?
Also, it tends to get very dusty, light and thus messy if it dries out. If I may make a suggestion, I'd suggest you try astroturf-type "cage carpet" or newspaper for substrate. I tried using the coco fiber, then went to safe wood chips, and finally went with newspaper cuz it is easy to clean after a messy BP bowel movement!
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"One man's pet is another man's feeder."

Hey Guys!
I'm back with more questions...
I set up the red infrared heat light (it is more like orange tho), and my temps increased nicely. I put the heat light over the hot side so Mitch can have a basking area on top of his hide on the warm side and in the hide it is 85-90 from the heat mat. Is it bad to have both heat sources focusing on the same area? I might move it more center, it is a high power bulb (250 W) so i had to mount it about 12" from the top of the cage to get the right heating. I put a board over the cold half of the cage to increase humidity. This leaves about 1/2 of the cold side (1/4 of the tank, all the way to the left) in a shadow from the heat light. This is where I put water dish, so the heat light doesnt heat it up. I dont think mitch has used it yet, but he may just be sneaky. I think the cold side might still be too cold, so I might move the light to the middle of the tank to generally raise the heat in the tank. I can guarantee Mitch was more comfortable than last night when it was freezing in my room. Here are my questions related to this new setup:

1) Should I leave the light on all the time? Is the basking temperature for daytime or nighttime or both? I have my thermometer/humidity gauge coming in the next 2 days, so I can measure min/max. I suppose I should measure min/max with the light on througout the day and with it off...any suggestions? Is 250 W too much? I was looking at the specs for the lights for vision cages and they only ask for 40-60W. But they get mounted closer.

2)Whats the deal with soaking Mitch and him using the water dish within the first 2 weeks of being in his new home? Right after I installed the new light, he was out of his hide and moving around. He was over by the water dish, but didnt see him in it at all

Sorry for such a long post. Thanks for the advice!

Sounds like the light does put out heat? If so, we can't tell you were to put it without knowing your surface temps on the warm side and the temps on the cool side. Surface temps on warm side should be 90 (95 tops), cool side 80-85. If your temps are too low compared to where they should be - then that's where you need to put the light. If the light adds too much heat, put it on a rheostat/dimmer to lower it.
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yeah the light gets about 100 degrees right at the bulb. At 12" away, it is about 90 degrees. Do snakes really need a basking area? or just a temperature gradient on the surface?

The temp gradient is the most important thing (90warm, 80-85cool, night time drop not required). My BP, however, does seem to enjoy 'basking' under his infrared light on his branch some nights.

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So do you keep it on during the day to keep the cage warm, or just at night?

I keep my UTH (warm side) and infrared heat lamp (cool side) both on 24/7. During the day I do have a flourescent light on (no heat)just to mimic the sun, etc.
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1.0 Ball Python
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1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
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0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

I just temped out my cage and the basking spot was 115 degrees!! I guess that 250 watt heat light is too hot. I was wondering if putting a light dimmer on it is ok and will do the trick. I could move the light further away from the cage, but then it would be heating my wall and everything else. it is a bout 18" away from the basking spot now.

Yikes! A dimmer might work, but if you don't already have one it might be cheaper to just get a lower wattage light.
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Check Out My Albums

1.0 Ball Python
"Aragorn"

1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
"Gimli"

0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"