Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is a simple consideration, but is perhaps overlooked nonetheless. One cannot be successful in the effort to benefit economically from breeding ball pythons unless the animals produced are sold. Obvious, I know. However, more than once I've seen it emphasized within this forum to buy animals "from the right people". See a contradiction here? I presume that the "right" people are well established breeders. But (for example) why purchase an albino ball python from a well established breeder for 2.5K if you can get the same thing from a small scale breeder for hundreds of dollars less (say 1.8K or less)? They're harder to find, but well worth the effort.

I say look real hard for the best deal for several months before your purchase is made. One should feel like a putz if after spending thousands of dollars you find the same animals for 2/3 the price that you paid. One might say I'm biased as I am one of those small scale breeders... I say OF COURSE I AM, but if anyone can argue to the contrary (that one should ONLY buy from established breeders), then I'd love to hear their attempt.

You need to change your name to Karma....just add an a.
The big breeders sometimes forget that the "little guy" has to get his share of the market. Now why would you spend 2k for an animal if you were not going to breed. Yes, some might but the majority will breed to make money. So you have to lower your prices to sell.
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

Karm, I think you have a very good point when purchasing a visual morph or the homozygous form. I think one of the factors for dealing with an established breeder is when you're purchasing hets. The few hundred more you spend with them can give you the peace of mind that what you bought is what you expected to buy and that that breeder will be there to back up his or her aniaml. Secondly the bigger breeders generally have what everyone wants and sometimes they like to offer their ground floor projects first to an established customer. I bought my animals from both small scale breeders and big breeders. Every time I have been burned it was by a small or unknown breeder. Not once was I burned from a big breeder. I realize that there are some very honest small scale breeders out there and I have purchased animals from a few.

Yes, but CATCH 22... the smaller guys are more likely to purchase hets initially. Therefore, they are even MORE likely to produce a larger percentage a hets.

But the real question is "how many people actually want the product?" To me it looks like the huge majority breed to produce offspring in order to sell (for big bucks) to others who have no actual want for the product but want to do the same thing as the previous breeders. It is like a stock market but in living things. I am curious as to how many people keep the morphs because they enjoy them or is it simply for profit. I think people often forget they are dealing with living things, not commodities. I think it takes a smaller scale breeder who does not have so much overhead to really bring the price down to the level that people who are not in in for the breeding can purchase one. I see people here complain that somebody is selling too cheap...that is a free market...it is supposed to happen. And if everyone continues to sell high because of an unspoken pact, that is actually illegal. Enough of that, just thought I would mention my view and see how many people keep the animals for what they are, pets.

I agree with the original post. I made a comment like this not to long ago. I am interested in all of the morphs out there b/c they are NOT like the wild stock. In that sense I am only interested in owning one for myself, and not to breed to make $ off of. The same thing goes with many fish and the new color morphs out there. But there is no way that I'm ever going to pay thousands of dollars just to have one to keep for myself. Now if for some reason I was able to get a few, lets say pastels, I would raise them and then IF they bred, it would be only b/c I did everything right and its "animal nature" to have that happen. At that point I would sell the babies, but only at an extremely low price just to get rid of them. Not to make a fortune.

No hard feelings big time breeders. Just some imput.
~Nick

Just to make light of the siutation, this business seems to be for the wealthy. I wonder if they have their nanny's actually taking care of their ball pythons, but for the little dog like me, I would love to some day be able to afford a $2K python, not to breed, but just to give him a happy home and lots of love. (Why can't we let the poor in?!?) I smell snobs!!!!LOL!!!Anyway, I got much love and respect for all you guys willing to take the time and hard work to provide us with these beauties.

Your friendly neighborhood
Clownloach

Get a better job. This is America that's just a drop in the bucket.

I would consider myself to be very American, I served my country in the United States military for 12 years (ARMY). And I do have a decent job. Thanks for being condesending and sarcastic. But being just an average guy with a family I guess you would see me as a lowlife. Too bad, I guess your caviar and lobster tails will never match up to my steak and potates. Don't put me down because I am not wealthy, I just have a loving home. Maybe someday you will learn that there are lot of guys like me around who feel the same way.

Your friendly neighborhood
Clownloach

I would have to agree. I don't make a whole lot of money so even 500.00 is a lot. I wish I had an unlimited income,I am buying an Albino on payments. I don't think the person im buying him from thinks that im bad cause I can't shell out 2000.00 in one transaction. I have a good job too. How much is a lot of money to you?? You must be rollin in it!!

first off .....THYANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.......100 dollars to one man might has well be a million......but to the same guy who can afford the 2000 dollar snake i bet you cnt spend a few hundred thousand on a party like p-diddy or some oil shiek......wealth is in what we have in life aside from money as well........and as far as im concerned 12 years serving our country and a loving home and a job sounds alright by me......id eat steak with you anyday......i know many many people WITH money who are as "POOR" as you can get........and YES 2000 dollars for a snake IS a lot of money ......ive spent it myself and ive got many morphs im raising now but i went out on a limb to do it and cant even tell some people around me what i actually spent or id be commited........to the outside world 2000 dollars is litteraly insane.......this is a small world that only those in it can justify the prices we spend or ask for in our animals.........ohwell blah blah blah.......let me know how tonights steak was im sure it was "RICH" with flavor.........PEACE

No, I cant afford to BLOW hundreds of thousands of dollars to throw a party. I can barely afford the $2,000 snake, I only can do it beacuse at THIS time I have no financial resposibilities. I am only spending this money because I have been wanting a Albino Ball Python since I first saw them,which had to be almost 10 years ago. I am "living" my dream so to speak, so it is WELL WORTH IT to me!

my point was that the amount of money me you or anyone else has is all relevent to their own situation.........it was meant for the post who asked if you think 2000 is a lot of money and that its just a drop in the bucket.........yes to some it is to some it isnt.........and thats the person i want to know if he could afford that party i mentioned........if its a drop in the bucket well then maybe the big spending high roller should buy everyone who cant afford one an albino.....hell its just a drop in the bucket right .......dont be so greedy .......who would miss just one drop in a bucket......have to go flip my steak.......PEACE

I COMPLETELY understand! I agree with you 100% I love steak!! I am giving away one of my Albinos (that I produce in 06) to a experienced BP owner, and will sell the rest CHEAP! If I get a buyer cool, if I dont, more of my dream for me to enjoy!!

I really don't understand why you would "invest" your hard earned money into a project, and then cut your own throat by selling them "CHEAP". If you just want one for a pet, and not an "investment", then just wait until they're affordable. I understand wanting to help out the other little guys by offering CHEAP prices, but in the end it doesn't help anyone. Then your investment is wasted, and any future they may have had from your hospitality is all lessened by people chosing to sell CHEAP. If you do sell them cheap, do so privately so you and your friends can still enjoy the market price for any offspring you may have the benefit of producing. This is just my .02, but it doesn't make sense to me to go after something so bad, and once you have it give it away. Think in terms of kids who are GIVEN cars by their parents. They have very little respect for that vehicle. On the other hand, those kids that had to earn the money to buy their own car generally have a little more pride in having their own car. This generally results in the vehicle being better maintained and cherished more so by the owner. I'd almost bet that someone is going to take more care for a 2,000 dollar snake than they might for a 20 dollar snake. It's just human nature. You had to earn it, why shouldn't they??? Take care!

Paul

I completely agree with you. I am in the infancy of starting a breeding business and as a "no one" in the business I understand that I will have to sell my babies cheaper the the big names because honastly why would some one pay me (unknown of breeder)$7,500 for an axanthic when they can get the smae snake from for the same price from the big name and respected breeders. However just because I do not plan on selling my babies as much as the big names I do not plan on givong them away. I think what unknown breeders should and need to do is set there prices about 10-20% lower than the big names. This will allow you to sell your snakes (and if they are high quality snakes develope your name and reputation), it will not hurt the big breeders and you will not take a loss on your investment, because let's be honast...anyone that pays 4 or 5 grand or more for a pair of snakes you are looking at them as an investment and not as a pet anymore. Yes you can still "love" them and everything but like I said it is an investment. Todd

nm

Go price some parrots or macaws or cockatoos. Maybe some show dogs. You can easily spend that kind of money on them. What's the difference between a snake and any other show type animal. There is a big market out there for them so the money must be there.

A dog serves a practical purpose, even if it prancing around a ring to look pretty, because it's still a loveable pet at home. Parrots are very social animals and want to be with you, in fact they need to be with you, some will even go insane without your company. You can teach them how to talk, play with them, they're bigger clowns than any Ball, etc.. A stunning, drop-dead gorgeous snake...is still a snake. As people are so fond of saying around here, they're a simplier life form and don't really want you to bother them. For some people, a fish tank would serve the same purpose.

My point is that it's easier for people to justify $2,000 on an animal that will show them affection in return. And those communities are generally a little warmer (no pun intended).

Most all start off small like myself. I have quite a large collection going. I am no where near rich. I have taken out a second on my house worked overtime and anything else to make enough to get the next morph. I have also sold quite a few animals. What you don't see is a big breeder buying a 25,000 to 100,000 dollar snake and it dies before it can be reproduced. So we all take our hits and it has happened to every big breeder. This is just some of the stuff that you don't hear about.

If you do think about it.... If you spend 2000 say on... a car, the car will probably only last you a few years, then you have to buy a new one. (and you loose money)

Well dont look at a $2000 snake in the same way. Look at it as an investment.

We will use pastel as an example.

Say you shell out $2000 for a male pastel BP, and you already have 3 normal females (adults). In 1.5 - 3 years, your male is ready to breed! We will say you sucessfully breed him to all 3 adult normals you have, and each cluch has 6 healthy eggs, 3 of which are pastel. Sure, the demand for pastel has gone down by now, but you could still get at least 1k for each pastel male, and at least 1.5k for each female. If 5 of the pastels are female, and 4 male, that would total - $11,500

Factor in cost of food, ($50 a year per snake) and original cost of the female normals ($100 per snake) and the cost of the male pastel ($2000) and say the male breed in the second year. That is a profit if $8,800 in less than 4 years!!!

But with all investments, there is a risk, the male could die before he breeds, (then $2000 sudenly seems like a lot of money again.....)

Exactly! Even breaking even will make it worth the effort in my eyes... if you're going to be breeding snakes anyway (this is how I look at it... I'm going to breed snakes anyway, might as well AT LEAST TRY to make some money to).

When you look at an animal, the first thing you see shouldn't be $$$$$$. I'm all for making money doing what you love but you really shouldn't go into breeding anything with your financial freedom as the first thing on your mind. If you love what you do, your animals will relfect it and so will your sales. Break-even, make a profit, buy a new house...just don't lose sight of the fact that your animals aren't just $$$$$.

Just offering a different point of view.

"Sure, the demand for pastel has gone down by now, but you could still get at least 1k for each pastel male, and at least 1.5k for each female. "

You think in 1.5 -3 years your gonna get 1k for males when they are posted now for as little as $750?

Please let me in on your secret.

Prices must drop... eventually you'll be able to afford the snake that you want.

keep the people coming back for more but i would like to test drive mine first. To bad they only sit in a room where no one can see them.

Who are the "right" people? I think that's really something that everyone has to figure out for themselves. For me, the "right" person has both a professional setup and attitude. If that happens to be a small businessman, fine. If not, fine. I generally prefer the small guys, they have a lot more to work for. On the contrary, the big guys can generally offer bigger discounts where applicable, due to higher volume. So, in my opinion, the "right" person has what you're looking for, in the ballpark of the price you want to pay, a written gaurantee (where applicable) and always presents themselves and their business in a professional mannor.