Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello All,
Not a huge problem yet, but looking for some input on a non-feeding Dumerils. This is the only non-python in my collection, and it was acquired about seven weeks ago from a show, at my girlfriend's behest. It appeared to have solid body weight, and I wasn't overly concerned about the lack of tongue flicking, as scared boas sometimes don't. (If it were any of the pythons I keep, I would have been very concerned.) After leaving it in an appropriate enclosure for a couple of weeks, I attempted feeding F/T, which I had been told it was accepting. It has since refused both rat-pups and small/med mice, all of which are in the appropriate size range. Observing it more closely, I saw a total absence of tongue-flicking, so I gently opened his mouth with a rubber-spatula (my snake mouth opening item of choice, a trick I picked up from my vet) and found a short, limp, tongue. The folks I picked it up from at the show haven't contacted me back, and I'm less concerned with recouping a financial loss, and more worried about getting it feeding for me. I have heard of "in-breeding" problems with Dumerils (I belive they are one of the only snakes where this has been solidly documented), including problems with mal-formed tongues. If anyone has any experience with this, or has gotten a speciman to feed despite this, I'd love to hear from them. Assist-feeding is not an option, as I'd never want to start an animal (its at least six months old, going by size) on twenty years of this. Its been a week, and I'll try live tomorrow, but I'm hoping there is some other trick I should first entertain. (I've left it in a deli-cup overnight with a prey item, I've also approached from the periphery with the food, as my blood pythons seem to prefer this.) I'm pretty good at the "dead-rat dance," but this snake shows a little visual interest, but never strikes or explores further.
Sorry for the terribly long post, any advice more than welcome.
-SWA

My '99 male Dumerils was hard to start feeding when I first got him, though there was no problem with his tongue. He was simply a very shy snake, still is for that matter. He didn't do well on newspaper or anything he couldn't burrow in to begin with, so I kept him on aspen. He would burrow down into it with just his nose or head sticking out and would take live fuzzy or hopper mice when offered. The prey was much smaller than what he should have been eating (and what I was told he was eating) but it got him started. I was able to switch to slightly larger prey, fresh killed, by dangling them near his hideout with hemastats. My guy was not a fan of the dead rat dance, for what that's worth, seemed to scare the daylights out of him. For him, I just dangled it nearby where he could see it and smell it. You could also try f/t prey that is smaller than what it should be taking, at least initially to try to get it to feed. Personally I would have the dumerils checked out by a good reptile vet to make sure there aren't any other problems that you're not seeing that contributes to the problem.

Raven

My husbands Dumerils, when young, was much more picky about what she ate. My husband feeds live (against my advise, but he doesn't tell me how to feed my snakes, so I try to stay out of an arguement).. and the snake would not strike if the mouse was looking in the snakes general direction. She would wait and try to ambush the mouse when it seemed to be interested in something else. So maybe if you "dance" a mouse around the snake, do so with small movements. (Like a mouse that is quietly cleaning itself), and with the head away from the snake. I would imagine fresh killed or stunned would work best. You may also want to try just placing a pre-killed mouse in the snakes mouth. (after trying everything else) Maybe just getting a "taste" would be enough to get him to start eating for you.
A few other tips you probably already know:

Try feeding with dim light, or no light.
Allow the snake to burrow in the bedding. (ours likes to be hidden from its prey, then strike)
If you have a vet that you could consult with, take advantage of it! ~ I'm lucky enough to have a wonderful "most-animal" vet that rarely charges me unless supplies are used, then its just for cost. He also treats goats, birds, ferrets, etc... so most of my animals are covered! And I get to watch surgeries!
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Everything that slithers is Gold!

Okay, first experience, I found a baby dumerils for sale which appealed visually to me, the seller was very upfront about the snake not feeding, and not doing well. I figured I'd take a shot at it having dealt with dumerils quite a bit. The snake arrived and two heat packs had been used to ship the animal to FL. To top it off, the carrier put the box BEHIND my glass storm door. When my wife opened the box she called and told me it felt like an oven. Three hours later when I got home from work, the box temp read 148 degrees. The snake had obvious neuro problems, and the tongue was laid back along side the glotus. This snake died within a week. My next experience, I was at a show, saw a baby dumerils I had previously seen online for sale. He had a cool abberant pattern, and as I was leaving the show, I figured I'd pick him up just as a side male. As I was in a rush, I didn't take time to inspect....baby dumerils from this breeder, should be healthy(WRONG ASSUMPTION). As I was driving home I noticed the same you did...tongue not flicking. So I pulled over and opened the mouth. I found the tongue limp and lying alongside the glotus same as you describe. This has been months ago. The snake is doing great, but I HAVE to assist feed. I at first had to force feed entirely, now I simply put the mouse head into the throat, set him back in his tub, and he takes it from there. He has NEVER struck at anything, he will look at things intently and even approach quickly, but has never taken a whack on his own. I own over 30 dumerils so I didn't chose force feeding out of lack of understanding of dumerils husbandry. I had to decide between life and death for the little guy. It takes me very little time to do this, and he is living a healthy life. He's essentially good for nothing in terms of a future breeder, but he deserves to live as much as the next dumerils IMO. I wish my experience was different and offered you a glimmer of hope, but thus far I still assist feed him. Hope this is what you were looking for.

That's exactly the sort of experience I was looking for. I'll try a few more "tricks," but without a functioning tongue, I am probably just wasting my time. I feel competent delicately "assist-feeding," so if the situation hasn't changed in another month, I will go to that. Again, thank you very much- that information may save me a lot of additional stress, and if he takes to the assist feeding easily, then it may work out fine after all.
-SWA