Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Are radient heat panels a more efficent source of supplemental heat. I need something that can provide me with a 15-20 degree increase in nighttime ambients. My room is in the low 60's at night I'm shooting for 75 degrees in the enclosure. Whose got some experience in this matter. I'd really appreciate some input. Thanx Clint

Hi Clint,

I've been waiting for someone to attempt this. I figured someone had to have more of an idea than I.

I'm not sure what the exact difference between these products is. They both produce heat in the far infared wavelengths, but the RHP's are still different as they don't produce nearly as much surface heat as the ceramics.

I think the important differences for you are the way they spread heat. A RHP's produce a more localized area of heat and don't spread their heat in all directions as much as a ceramic. They are also safe to install directly in a cage with no protection/guard - the animals can touch them without getting burned. If they radiate onto a heat conducting substrate such as rocks they will then heat the entire cage more.

The ceramics do spread their heat and get quite hot. In a larger cage, say 4' long, they would be more likely to heat up the opposite end of the cage than a RHP.

So in a larger cage without a heat conducting substrate a RHP will heat one end of the cage nicely. The other end of the cage will be closer to ambient room temperatures.

With a ceramice you'll likely see more of a temp increase across the entire cage. At the very least it will cast its heat in a large circle, more so than the RHP. The ceramic will require a guard to keep the animal away from it.

These differences are from what I've read and not from first hand experience.

Both produce similar type of heating, where they tend to heat objects below them rather than the air. It is similar to basking in the sun, where for example a rock on the ground may be at 100 deg even though the air temp is 80.

If you want general air heating (and your basking area is a heat pad for example) then a light bulb or red heat bulb is cheaper and will do the job perfectly. With a CHE or RHP, you don't need a heat pad as long as the cage height is such that the heat reaches the floor or perch for basking.

I have experimented with CHEs alot on snakes that are normally kept in boxes with heat tape. In every case, the animals under the CHEs had tremendous feeding responses and an overall robust well-being. I've tried it with Mtn kings to cornsnakes to rosy boas, and all did great. Just too d@mn expensive to have all cages set up this way. I would set up two cages and rotate animals in those cages. One year I did mtn kings; one year rosy boas; etc. It was kind of cool seeing a rosy boa basking at the mouth of its hide, or under a piece of newspaper below the CHE.

I have a question for you. I don't have a lot of experience with RHP's but do have a bit with CHE's.

What I'm curious about is the gradiant produce directly below the source, the vertical gradiant if you will.

Here are my anecdotal observations:

Say you have a CHE and a RHP both heating a surface to 90* 20" below where they are mounted.

If you hold you hand below the CHE and slowly raise it up to the heating element it feels like it's getting gradually warmer. If you touch the CHE you'll receive a terrible burn.

The RHP, on the other hand, seems to have the same temperature from the floor all the way up to the heating element. If you eventually touch it you're fine.

These anecdotes seem to hold true with more objective observations made by hobbyists who use both.

Any thoughts on this? Seems quite different to me, but I just don't have enough experience with both. I have used a lot of CHE's but not RHP's.

You know Chris, now that you mention it, it does seem that way. Kind of like having two 40 Watt lamps side by side compared to one 80 Watt lamp. Same wattage, but the two 40 Watt lamps offer less intense heat over a wider area, making for a more stable temp in that area, and the effect of less vertical gradient IN A RELATIVELY LOW CAGE HEIGHT. The RHP is less watt density and alot of area.

If the cage was 4ft tall, you would definitely feel the vertical gradient from floor to just under the RHP. I think the greater area of the RHP coupled with the less intense surface temps make for less vertical gradient in common cage heights of 18-24 inches. The larger the area of the heater in relation to the cage, the less of a gradient.

These are just my rambling thoughts on the subject, not necessarily what may actually be happening. I would love to open up an RHP and see what is in there.

Hi Chris

I measure a definite vertical temperature gradient directly under the panels in my Visions, at least 10 degrees until you get extremely close to the panel surface where, of course, the temperature jumps greatly. Maybe most of us with those low cages housing snakes don’t notice it so much because there’s not much room for the animals to climb normally. Here’s a couple of pics showing that the animals do notice.

I didn’t realize the ball python propped against the side of the cage was gravid until I saw her gyrations in trying to maintain a higher than normal temperature. The surface temp of the panel is ~165 degrees and the floor is in the mid 80’s. She would extend her head out and warm it up to almost 98 before dropping it back down against the side of the cage to cool off. So she was able to get her entire body heated into the upper 80’s.

The other photo shows a cage I maintained for some smooth scale sand boas for several months with overhead heat instead of the usual (and more sensible) under cage heat. It was fun to watch them migrate up and down depending upon their needs. A male and immature female usually chose an upper level only while digesting a meal. A gravid female often basked at the highest level, as was the case when I snapped this shot.

Thanks for the info and pics.

Have you had a chance to make similar measurements with a CHE? I suspect that the gradiants would be more signficant than the 10* with the RHP's.

I may just have to break down and do these comparisons myself someday. I've always wanted to better understand the differences between these types of products but the available information seems quite limited.

VERY good topic ...
Here is my experience to this and i thin it may help your situation alot but thiswill depend on the size of the cage/enclosure you are heating the material its made with aswell.

Ok since i have relocated to the mountains i now use part of my shop to house my scaleddown collection of snakes in.Now with that said ill explain my setup and temp ranges all taken with a digital laser temp gun.

The Shop:
The shop is built approximately 24" off the ground and is open w/ no underpinning foundation as its built on peirs.The walls are 2x4 studs with r-19 insulation in them then covered in 1/2 Sheet rock on them & ceiling which is also insulated with R-19.The main problem i had was that the temps & wind that blow under the floor caused the floor to remain rather cold esp at night for the winter ( 55 degrees ) the cage im heating is a custom built 4x4x2 that is split into a upper cage that measures 4x2x2 As far as room heat i have installed a gas wall heater that does heat the room upto to around 70 degrees. the cage has no heat tape in it so i installed a 100 watt CHE in the center of the cage before this was installed i couldnt keep the cage heated to a desirable temp with just a " human heat pad hung from the ceiling" acting as a RHP as the heats do get hot on these on high approx 120 degrees F.This only raised the airtemp AROUND the heat pad to about 75 degrees but the floor of the cage stayed at about 65 or so. With the 100w CHE installed i can keep the room at about 65 or so and the inside of the cage no reads around 88-90 under the CHE and on both ends of the cage 80-83.So right now the floor is insulated with a 6" insulation but due to the open side of the shop ( under floor) the temps taken with the temp gun register about 65-70 degrees and the room to about 70-75 depedning on how much i run the gas heater. So for me the CHE was the best way to heat this cage.
On anote i almost forgot when i nuilt this cage at mo other hom the room it was in was heatedto around 80 and i used halogen lights 20 wat that provided a hot spot of around 85 under it , this cage also has a 2x4 pegboard back for lots of air flow due to its intended use when built of being in a temp controlled room. So with this 100Wche it provides everything i need for heating this large of a cage with a large vented back

Again i think it will vary per cage , type, material and size and ventilation to the cage so with that in mind a CHE will provide a nice ambient temp in a cage this size but if you are worried i would say get a oil filled heater there cheap to run and do a good job of rasing room temps
-----
Buisnesses come and go everyday, what keeps you here is how you treated the customer the day before....
Check out the new website at www.junglehabitats.com and www.junglehabitats.com/forums/portal.php

>>Are radient heat panels a more efficent source of supplemental heat. I need something that can provide me with a 15-20 degree increase in nighttime ambients. My room is in the low 60's at night I'm shooting for 75 degrees in the enclosure. Whose got some experience in this matter. I'd really appreciate some input. Thanx Clint

I just built a black melamine cage that's 41" wide, 24" deep, and 18" high. The front has quarter-inch thick sliding glass by-pass doors.

Installed a Helix 11"x16" 65w radiant heat panel. With the heat panel plugged directly into the wall, my temp gun says that the floor of the cage reaches 90 degrees directly under the center of the panel, lowering to 70-75 degrees (read: background temperature) at the opposite end of the cage. Haven't checked overnight temperatures yet, but I would assume a similar ( 15-20 degree) temperature difference. A shorter cage would likely be warmer, a taller cage would be cooler.

I chose the heat panel primarily because I didn't want to have to worry about animals getting burned by touching the surface of the device...

THANKS! I appreciate all of the replies & experience. I am getting a CagesByDesign (melamine & acrylic) reptile cage 5'long x 4'high x 2'deep., for my 3 jungle carpet pythons. The top will be screen, and then a completely enclosed melamine hood (12" high) will be on top of that. I will have three basking ledges at different heights from the top. It will be in my den, average room temperature 68 F. Judging from your responses, it seems a ceramic bulb will be best for my purposes to heat the generally large cubic ft area (80) of the entire cage, and also the snakes can bask closer to the ceramic without getting burned. So, two questions please, do you agree that ceramic would be best for my purposes? And second, I have heard that radiant heat panels require far less electricity (cost) to operate, is this true?

Hi, well we got part of the answer, I'll post the other half. Pay attention, robyn@ Pre Exotics strongly suggests it. Clint