Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all... We pulled an abandoned 4 ft Spectacled Caiman out of a guy's garage last night... And noticed it has a "toe tag". It's in the webbing between his toes, and was obviously tagged professionally.

The best I can find - these toe tags were used by researchers.... Anyone else have any thoughts?

Thanks!

Mark

The spec. caimans coming in to the US used to have tags. I'm not sure if it was done here or at point of export but I'm guessing the latter. I've seen plenty of them without the tags so I'm not sure if only ones from a certain region were tagged or if they just fell out (or were taken out).

Bill

Do you suppose the tag is an indicator of ANYTHING? I was hoping to use it as an indicator of age, since we know NOTHING about this caiman. I imagine it is not a young animal, since it is over 4 ft long, and has been grossly neglected.

Mark

I would imagine that the number is traceable to point of origin and date but I don't know how you would do it. If you find out, let me know.

Bill

Bill, do you know where I can find information on the current CITES status of Spectacled Caimans? I remember someone saying they can no longer be sold in the US... Is it because of their similar appearance to other species?

If I can find something in writing, I'd be oh so pleased.

Thanks again!

Mark

I can't get a link to work - maybe because it's a secure site so follow these steps.

WWW.FWS.gov
click "endangered species" on left side of screen
search "caiman" in search box
click "caiman crocodilus crocodilus"
Click "go to Fed Reg Docs"
Download/open the PDF

That should get you there. You will also find interesting reading on other species while you're there.

Bill
Common Caiman Status in the USA

This is what I uncovered:

The tags were used years ago to mark captive hatched animals. Whether these animals were captive bred or not I cannot say. It was an accounting method, not so different from bird banding.

Most animals lost the tags after a few years but i had one in which the tag remained until the 4ft or so range then finally fell off.

From talking with various agencies and importers in regards to the law on spectacled caiman. I found general confusion but a consitent trend. They are not allowed to be brought in due to similarity of appearance, but once in the country can be sold and moved about.

So hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

If common, brown or yacare caimans are sold,traded,bartered etc and they cross state lines, it is a violation of the Lacey Act. The fed doesn't control what happens within the state boundries though.

Bill

I agree it may say that but I'm not sure that is the story that is getting out. Or conveys the actual meaning of the law.

As an example. Several dealers are/were offering spec's on thier lists. A friend of mine called the dealers, inquiring and saying that the animals were protected. To a person they all said the USFW regs apply only to imported animals and NOT those animals kept stateside. They could legally ship them and offer them in interstate commerce.

So my friend calls USFW, they say the animal in the USA can be moved ad the designation only matters for imports due to similarity of appearance in imported animals.

Go figure.

That is interesting. I spoke with a person named (I think) Carpenter shortly after the law was passed. I was passed along to him specifically because he was the final authority at the national office. He explained the intent of the law very clearly, and in fact, he was the one who used the words sold, bartered or otherwise exchanged for anything of value when refering to interstate movement.

All I can say is that the law is pretty specific. To me it's like calling a IRS help line looking for advise and when you follow it and get audited, you are still the one ultimately responsible.

If nobody is enforceing the law, then great. But the law is still on the books and the way I see it, anyone who violates it is still subject to prosecution if proper paperwork is not done.

Bottom line, people can do whatever they feel comfortable with.

Bill

>>If nobody is enforceing the law, then great. But the law is still on the books and the way I see it, anyone who violates it is still subject to prosecution if proper paperwork is not done.

>>Bottom line, people can do whatever they feel comfortable with.

Back in the 1980s, an ostrich farmer in southern OK bought a number of alligators with the intention of setting up a "farm." He did not get an import permit from the state wildlife department (a law which had been on the books for decades and had NEVER been applied to reptiles, only game animals). The alligator farm idea fell by the wayside and he eventually sold them to another gentleman in another part of the state who had the same intention. In the early 1990s, the second owner was arrested under a Lacey act violation for possession of illegally imported wildlife, even though he was not the one who had brought them in and had bought them in good faith.

Be careful.