Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Thoughts on handling large anacondas. I think most will agree
that a large anaconda is probably the most formidable of
all large snakes. Their power and strength is uncanny. I have
a 4' baby green and I think it is not too early to start
thinking about handling issues with it as it grows.

If I'm real lucky, my baby green will turn out to be a male.
Else, I'm going to have a very large snake on my hands. One thing for sure, I will never, ever trust it. I don't care if I end up having it for 25 years with zero bites, I will never trust it.

I'm familar with the AFH Guidelines on Keeping Large Serpents.
However, I think it is a pretty feeble attempt at addressing
the issues.

Perhaps really large anacondas, say 16' plus, are just unhandable. Smaller ones still present a challenge.

I suppose there are two main issues:

1) handling the anaconda in a safe way for convenience
2) Preventing a serious (fatal) attack

A couple things I've thought about include:

1) use a transparent shield as some zoos do. So-So solution.
2) have a stun gun available? Who knows? Who wants to test it?
3) have alcohol or whisky available, has been
reported to work pretty well to release bites.
4) Would cologne prevent a feeding response? Not so much as
to irrate the snake, but enough to tell it, hey, I'm not
food. Or some other scent?
5) I suppose a snake stick is always handy.

I've thought about body armour, but don't think it is very
practical. One's head, neck and torso would have to be
covered.

Would like to know if anyone else has good ideas. It would seem to me that the 5 ideas above are a decent start. I really don't want to be one of those guys in the newspaper who got killed by his pet anaconda. Besides, its bad pr for the industry.

Mines still too small to need to worry about it, but when she gets bigger I will have whiskey on hand. I have seen it work.
Other than that, the cologn idea doesnt sound bad either....though "I" would be wearing perfume.
Though my girly is very docile and seems sweet, she does have her rare oubursts. Her TEMPER comes out when you let her roam and she gets into something that you have to pull her out of...thats when she lets one loose. I will NEVER trust her.
Unfortunelty I have to keep reminding my husband that she CAN and WILL bite whenever she feels like it. He always thinks she is so sweet and tells people (when we take her out with us) they can pet her, she is sweet and does not bite. I have to correct him and let them know she is a wild animal and can bite! NEVER TELL SOMEONE YOUR SNAKE DOESNT BITE! Cause if it bites them then YOU ARE IN TROUBLE!!! Aparently he doesnt think of theese things.
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http://photos.yahoo.com/gwas79
"The Critters"

Yes, you are right on that stuff...hey, why don't you zap your anaconda with a stun gun and then tell me how he reacts ! If we never hear from you again, we'll know the result ! I doubt very many girls have anacondas, yes, perfume would be better than colgne. Know any perfumes that turn guys (snakes) off?? Regards. Hope we hear from you again....

I suspect you may not go for that idea. So, perhaps we can compromise here. Being the skilled negotiator that I am, I propose I zap YOUR anaconda with the stun gun. That way, she will not be mad at you.

How about I zap you and we can see if she has any reaction?
That a good comprimise?? lmao
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http://photos.yahoo.com/gwas79
"The Critters"

Oooooh noooo!! I could NEVER!! I LOVE MY SIREN!!!
hehehe. I could never hurt her. Even when she was biting the crap outa me the first week I had her. Out of all my animals she is truely my favorite!
I only know one person taht owns an anaconda and it is a guy. And he lives on the other side of the States.
Other than the Anaconda I own
1: 3 1/2 ft Great Basin Rattlesnake
1: 2 ft Nile Monitor
1: 2 ft Green Basilisk
1: 1 1/2 ft Chinese Water Dragon
approx 50: rats
5: sugar gliders
1: hedgehog
2: ferrets
2: coatimundi
couldnt zap any of them. MY BABYS!!
Perfume that turns men off? ummm....could play with a wild skunk for a few.
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http://photos.yahoo.com/gwas79
"The Critters"

Oh well, I tried...scientific data is hard to come by...you got alot of critters....here's mine:

0.0.1 Green Anaconda
1.1.1 Indian Pythons
0.0.1 Rainbow Boa
0.0.1 Ball Python
4.1 Diamondback Terrapins
0.0.1 Spurred Tortoise
0.0.1 Leopard Tortoise
0.0.2 Alligator Snapping turtles
too dern many mice, but anaconda/pythons will solve that...
0.0.1 green iguana
0.1.0 Double Yellow Headed Parrot
0.0.1 Green Winged Macaw
0.0.1 Mealy Amazon parrot
0.1.0 Opposum
0.1.0 wife
1.2.0 kids

Regards.

blah, Ok ,well if you you are goin g to include those then
1: husband
1: baby
1 sun conure and Green wing Macaw in the near future!
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http://photos.yahoo.com/gwas79
"The Critters"

` As far as keeping pet snakes goes, I just keep in mind exactly what they are, and respect them, especially when they're young and/or small.
` I'm keeping this animal prisoner. Also, at the latitude where I live, I have this cold-blooded, tropical critter, is on constant life support. If I don't keep it prisoner, it will die.
` I slow myself down to the snake's speed, physically, and as slow as I can go, mentally. At a human's operating level, the snake is hopelessly out-classed, and it is smart enough to know that, and exercise one of its few options, to deal with being overwhelmed. I pick them up slowly, move them slowly, and try to steer them, rather than make them. When they want to back out of something, I let them.
` Baby snakes get grabbed, moved quickly, put down abruptly. It must just scare them silly. It also must traumatize them, with lasting results.
` Adult snakes who are mellow, have to put up with constant insults to their life style by humans who are so much more capable than they are. I often watch folks handling large constrictors, and marvel that they aren't attacked. When they are, my opinion is that it is the handler's fault, always.
` If you try to act more like a snake, think like the snake, and just let the snake be itself, you will have unexpected rewarding results with them.
` I am absolutely NOT recommending this as a method of dealing with unknown animals. I've learned, by losing blood, not to act like the snake expert with someone's large problem snake, which they have pre-programmed to resist human handling, whoever it is, and whatever that human is doing. I will let a smaller snake chew on me for a few days, to see if it will get out of its system.
` Any sort of discipline, retribution, punishment is a total waste of action on a snake. It is not able to understand what is happening. It is simply cruelty. You can reinforce behavior by consistency and repetition, that does work. You can also let the snake finish what it wants to do, before trying to lead it into what you want it to do, that works, too. If you must compensate for your failings with some protective, or offensive/defensive devices, think about keeping Ball Pythons. I do, and they're always the ones that bite me. I get careless with them, and they bite me, usually at feeding time.
` As far as "trusting" is concerned, I think that is inappropriate. The more experience you have with a particular animal, the better you are able to anticipate its behavior. If you're not realistic about that process, you can get yourself, and others, in trouble. With adult Anacondas, BIG trouble.
` You can think like a snake ( sort of ), the snake can't possibly think like you.

` Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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By the way, I'm the same Dannygood1 poster as before, just thought I'd use a reptilian user name from now on, so using AnacondaKeeper.

Gee, you make me feel sad and sorry for the anacondas/snakes.
I'll have to take the best care of mine. I agree 100% with slowing down, etc. I am ever so careful with mine, I think the main reason it has never bitten me is I prescribe to what you have said. I never surprise my anaconda, and always take it easy. Yet, I try not to "baby" it. If it sorta partially falls from my hand sometimes, a quick movement, but I think its good to have it prepared for that.

You know, my lttle anaconda is only about 4'. The other day, when I was getting a dead mouse for him out of a jar nearby his cage, he poked his head out from under his hide box, raised his head up about 8 inches, and looked around. I mean really looked around, it was almost scary (I'm thinking about a 16 footer doing that...).

Regards to all. Watch out for that zoolady gal, she sure put me in my place!

"If you must compensate for your failings with some protective, or offensive/defensive devices, think about keeping Ball Pythons"

Exactly my point !!!!

What the hell are you guys doing with green annies (some of you don't even know whether it's male or female !!!) if you have to ask questions about handling???

Surely you thought about these fairly important things when you bought that cute little 4ft snake ?????

This isn't a burm or even a nasty retic- it's a bloody green anaconda. Those of you who have kept yellows will know that a 10ft female is more than a handful. You would need a good few years experience dealing with (not handling!) large aggro yellows and aggro retics before even thinking about a green annie.

"Trust" and "body armour" and "perfume"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus, guys - this a Darwin Award waiting to happen!

` Wow, that post really lives up to your screen name. After the transformation!
`
` If you could catch some folks before they bought the baby giant constrictor, a little vitriol might be appropriate.
`
` Once they've got one, the idea is to try to help them make the critter happy.
`
` That is the first step in keeping the keeper safe.

` Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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Gee, such reptilian hostility here on this forum. I'll try to be civilized and make a few points.

I just think it is wiser to be prepared for the unexpected. It's pretty much that simple. The more tools/techniques and knowledge one has available to them, the better their chance of surviving an anaconda attack. Whether you are Steve Irwin or a fool like me.

You know, maybe an example is in order to help. Your father tells you when growing up, ALWAYS have that manual for the car in the glovebox and ALWAYS have a spare and tire iron. Right?
So you do that. Good for you. Then, while out, an emergency occurs, and you HAVE TO (somebody is dying...) borrow your buddies car. Off you go...flat tire...Life is too full of unexpected events. All one can do is think and plan for them, which is what I've been trying to do. After all, this is not a trivial subject, is it? So, the analogy here are those
rules published called "AFH Guidelines on Keeping Large Serpents" - those are rather simplistic and unrealistic in my stupid opinion. They are what your father tells you. They don't handle the unexpected.

And, oh, I do have a ball python. Cool snakes. Why I like a small, harmless snake is beyond me.

What are we doing with green annies? Well, lets see. First, and foremost, I have some quirk in my personality that attracts me to anacondas. Honestly, its that simple. Probably some sadistic or masochistic defect in my genes. Secondly, I like to think we all contribute to the knowledge base for anaconda care. Some day, the only anacondas that exist might be in captive care. We've already seen that with a few other species.

I don't KNOW whether mine is male or female because I have not personally probed it. And, it really doesn't make a difference to me. I don't want to risk injury to the snake at this stage when it is so small.

I've thought about these issues when I raised my hatchling burmese to 16 feet for 22 years. And my retic. But I didn't have an anaconda then. They are quite different snakes.

Here is what's really interesting and one of the benefits I've gotten from this forum. Like you, I had the impression anacondas were really nasty, mean guys. Heck, they are water snakes. We all know water snake temperments. You will find many comments like that on the web. And, that's OK with me, I can handle it, I've been dealing with reptiles for 30 years. But, interestingly, people on this forum have begun to change my mind. I hear (relatively) many comments about how adult greens are rather docile! I'm surprised! One theory is they are so overly confident (due to their size), nothing bothers them. Where does a 200 pound anaconda sleep? Anywhere it wants to.

Who knows, perfumes (odors in general) may have an affect on potential feeding or defensive attacks. The navy has probably spent only about 50 million dollars trying to figure out how to prevent shark attacks based on odors (chemical receptor responses).

Heck, I just like anacondas. Shame on me.

Why are there so many agressive hostile people on theese forums? And how in the hell can someone with such a bad temper and obvious lack of patience deal with ANY animal themselves?
Anyhow, I agree with Keeper. It is always food to have a back up plan. OF COURSE WE KNOW THEY ARE DANGEROUS!!! And of course we knew this when we got them. And knowing when we got them as babys that we would have plenty of time to do the research and experiments necisary to try to prevent an attack and if one did occure, how to get out of it. Starting with a young anaconda to me is the best thing to do. It is the perfect time to learn theese things while we stil CAN handle them. I was told my Anaconda was female when I got her shipped in. But I didn't know myself for sure. So what. I know to expect the size of a female tops. I got her probed at the vet and she is in fact female. That is what I wanted. So I'm crazy. I catch rattlesnakes for a living. I love it. My 2nd favorite of all my pets is my Great Basin "Fluffy". So maybe there is some weird sadistic side of me that just likes putting myself at risk with the more dangerous animals. It gives me great pleasure. An adrenelin rush. I love it! What can I expect at worst? To either be envenomated a horrible painful death in the middle of nowhere all alone, or constricted, squuuuuezed, crushed to death, no air, eyes popping out of my head, by my beautiful Green.
Who's fault would that be? Mine. I put myself at that risk every day. I take full responsability for anything that happens to me.
But at the same time I try to learn methods of avoiding this from happening. I handle both my rattlesnake and my Green at least once a week. My Green is very docile, and so is the rattler considering it's species. Though I don't take any methods of prevention with the green yet since she is still so small. Just slow and easy. I let KIDS hold my green (while she is this young) And she is great with them. Alot of people that have met me call me an animal whisperer cause I have such a talent with dealing with captive and wild animals. But I think it just takes patience and understanding. Put yourself in the animals place. Understand what it is feeling. Then you will understand better how to deal with it.
Maybe some day I will be eaten by my Green.
I lived a happy life doing what I love.

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http://photos.yahoo.com/gwas79
"The Critters"

Easy... you like your ball python because everyone needs at least one 'lap snake'... IE one that won't outgrow or envenomate your lap.
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"The serpent crams itself with animal life that is often warm and vibrant, to prolong an existence in which we detect no joy and no emotion. It reveals the depth to which evolution can sink when it takes the downward path and strips animals to the irreducible minimum able to perpetuate a predatory life in its naked horror."
Alexander Skutch

There are two different issues of concern on this topic regarding large anacondas in captivity; these are defensive strikes and feeding strikes. Defensive strikes aren’t near as serious an issue, as this type of bite does not involve constriction of the victim and usually results in only laceration of the target area. Feeding strikes are much more dangerous and can easily result in constriction and death if it involves an anaconda over 13 or 14 feet. The key is to condition the snake from the time it is a young animal, so that it is more likely to react with a certain type of behavior from a specific stimulus, the key words being “ more likely “. Even though the defensive body posturing of greens is fairly easy to read, care must always be taken as nothing is a given when dealing with any animal. Frequent handling and the feeding of dead prey animals in a non-strike provoking manner, will go a long way toward conditioning a young anaconda to human interaction and non-aggressive feeding behavior. Once any of my large constrictors reach the 6 to 8 foot range, I have them conditioned to know that when I tap them lightly on the head a couple of times with a three foot long cardboard tube, they are not going to be fed and they are not looking for food after that point. I am then free to move them, or water them, or whatever else I need to do. I have been bitten by large boids, but in 30 years, I have never been hit in a feeding response when using this method. If you have a very large constrictor that causes you to think about stun guns or alcohol, then unless you are highly experienced, you are probably in over your head at that point. When dealing with young aggressive greens, and after attempts at conditioning it still doesn’t grow out of its aggression in the first year or two, it probably never will. The big question then is do you really want to deal with this snake when it gets considerably larger. If so, a cage with a partition will be needed to allow maintenance of one half of the cage at a time, and direct contact will rarely be needed. I personally don’t have any snakes like this, as I always like to be able to deal with them in a direct manner. My experience has been that when consciously raised to avoid negative behaviors, the vast majority of young captive born greens tame quite well, and become more and more docile as they get older. Also, I really liked your last point about the PR, as this is very critical to our hobby these days.

Kelly

Thanks. You had 2 good points I will add to my list.
1) conditioning such as a tap on the head
2) cage partioning

My primary concern is normally docile, "pet" snakes. A recent wild caught (or not), tempermental, nasty 15 foot anaconda is a whole other ballgame. I'm really concerned about the odd circumstance where a "pet" goes after you, and what can be done to ensure both of you survive it. Thanks again.

That point about conditioning is VERY important I think.
You say you tap them on the head to let them know its not feeding time. But what if they are in a hide box or their head isn't too available? Funny, I used to do the same basic thing, I would nudge them with a stick before handling them. I hoped that if they felt "something big" nudging them, they'd figure out its me. Seemed to work. I wonder what the best conditioning technique is? Tapping on head, nudging their body, etc. I'm going to give it some thought...thanks.

` I would not write-off constriction as a defensive, or offensive action by the Anaconda, when feeding response is not involved at all. It is unusual, but it does happen.
` I have two young adult Yellows, both rescues, and both of them have used constriction on my wrist/arm when I was medicating under their scales. Neither offered to bite during the process.
` One of them, a 7 foot, husky but pinheaded male, objected to my spraying him with warm water, trying to clean under his scales, where he had much dermal infection. He threw several coils around my wrist and forearm and proceeded to constrict me with tremendous force, slightly relaxing, then squeezing again. It really surprised me, as it became painful, and I'm not a little guy. When I tried to unwrap him, he let me. Afterward, he did not do anything further, of an aggressive nature.
` Believe me, this gave me a new respect for my large females. I had heard others stories of Boids constricting aggressively, without biting, but had not considered these stories credible. Now I do.
` I have another male who aggressively constricted a female during mating, when other males were introduced. She didn't seem to mind, but he was really squeezing her.
` I got a picture of that situation.

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You're right, we need to consider all possibilities, whether "likely" or not. If a 7 footer felt like that,
I wonder what a 18 or 20 footer must feel like?

Rich,
I know what you mean, but that is a different scenario. If you grab, restrain or sometimes just contact an anaconda in some way, they will automatically constrict as a defense mechanism to repel the perceived attacker. If not restrained, and just simply approached too closely, it is extremely rare that they would try to constrict without striking, in a defensive mode. I have seen them constrict in a feeding mode without biting when something has bumped the side of their body, and this could possibly be what you experienced. If a person is struck before touching them and constricted, you were probably mistaken for prey, unless they got entangled on clothing or something during a defensive bite.

I think the male yellow you spoke of was probably trying to keep any other males from displacing him from the female he was engaged with at the time. This was typical breeding ball behavior. It is great that you were able to witness this type of natural behavior with your yellows.

As far as Danny’s question on what to do if constricted by a 15 foot anaconda, I would say never work with it alone if you are concerned about an accident happening. If it does grab you when alone, it would be very difficult for you to get to any type of device that could help you. If you have someone else around, at least they would be available to help with the removal process.

Kelly

` I don't know for sure, Kelley. The longer I keep Boids, the more I discover I didn't know about them. They have much more latitude in their behavior than they are generally credited with. I think many captive snakes never get to the point where they can relax, and just be themselves, and are able to stay at that point for any length of time.
` That is one of the interesting points of Anaconda behavior, the apex predator behavior. Snakes which instinctively know they are prey, as adults, are never going to be completely free of that instinct. Some Anacondas can get downright complacent, about their safety. That's not to say you can't hurt, startle, or frighten a calm adult and get an aggressive reaction. You really have to know the individual, and have a method for handling them that the critter is used to. Like your nose tapping. Part of my method is never grab, never restrain, and never surprise them. That last part is hard with a critter that you can't tell is asleep, or not.
` The Anaconda that constricted my arm was laying in the bottom of a large tub, being sprayed with warm water. I was working around him, trying to spray the water against the grain of his scales, so it would get beneath. I was not touching him when he threw a coil around my wrist. He had been trying to get up the side of the tub, but it was too deep for that, under the circumstances. He was a horribly mistreated rescue. I've had him two years, now, and he's never gotten totally secure. Also, he has never tried to bite anything, except the cat, twice.
` As for the male who was mating, and constricting: Hell, he was in the throes of passion, and didn't want to share! I think we can all appreciate that. If not, I don't want anyone following this forum to enlighten me. Thanks anyway! LOL
` As for Danny's question about the 15 footer. I have a couple of giant Yellow females, over 50 pounds. They are both very tame, and mellow. Even so, when I handle them, there are always a few bottles of isopropyl alcohol, with loose caps, strategically placed within grabbing distance. I may be crazy, but not too stupid!
Rich
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Rich,
I fully agree with you on the point you made, in that their behavior is much more complex than most people give them credit for. I also agree in that many captives never completely acclimate to captivity and never truly relax, although I have doubts whether these individuals would ever be completely relaxed in their natural environment either. It all depends on the individual snake. Some are going to have a calm temperament and some are going to have a more aggressive temperament whether in captivity or in their natural environment. I’m sure a lot of it is genetic. They all have different thresholds for triggering a defensive reaction, but as you said, under the right circumstances they can all be startled. This is especially true with greens, as they seem to be a generally shy snake and easier to startle than most other boids.

The only exception to the rule that I know of is the large male green anaconda that Jud has. You would really need to put some effort into it to startle that snake. A person can never really appreciate a truly, totally calm anaconda until you have been around this male. Additionally, I still believe strongly that with captive born green anacondas, age is a major factor. Every one I have dealt with has always become calmer with age, especially when they make it over the one year mark. I have never seen one get more aggressive after that one year point. Year by year they just seem to get more relaxed.

Kelly

Regarding the cologne/perfume approach, I read somewhere that large boids have been known to react defensively to musk-based scents. Maybe it's a hard-wired predator response; some predators have musk/scent glands. I've never tested the theory myself.

That's a good thing to know about ! Thanks. I never heard of that.

Extremely well put, DFR and Kelly, regarding your first comments addressing this post.

Perhaps some perspective about how only wild greens behave would also help?

Out of the over 800 adult green anaconda catches, we had many try and bite - only defensively. (Undoubtedly everyone here knows anacondas are a pretty feisty breed, not unlike many water snake species. I'd never suggest them as a good first snake pet.) Simply, once they tried to swim/crawl away and had no success, then they turned and tried to bite, as a last resort defense. These bites were basically a way of vehemently expressing "leave me alone, you're bothering/scaring me!" They were not super fast strikes, or highly dangerous; typically defensive, "go away" strikes.

I had a bite from an almost 16 foot, large-headed, very pregnant female. Although she had a particularly grumpy personality - I can't blame her, we had surgically implanted a radio trasnmitter in her - and she was pregnanat and thus protective, she typically bit and let go (I was stupid enough to get bit, because I was trying to grab her under cloudy river water where I couldn't see her, I just knew she was there thanks to the transmitter). The only reason the bite was worse was because I pulled, and her tooth snagged on my wrist. (Fight your instincts, never pull when an anaconda bites with those recurved teeth. If they don't let go, you have to be counterintuitive; push slightly further in if you can, the snake will loosen its hold and then you can get free.)Regardless, a bite from a really big dog could have been worse.

Anyway, out of over 800 snakes, and most of those attempting to bite defensively though not succeeding, we had two predatory strikes (almost bites). Two attackes on people, that is. The snakes didn't succeed, but almost; one attempt we even got on film. However, if you have watched your snake feed, you know how fast, violent, and dangerous (if you are the prey!)a predatory bite can be.

So, our rules were simple (at least, after seeing the predatory strike!): Never look for, or as captive owners should word it, nevr handle a large female alone. Period. If those people (one a man, one a woman) had been successfully attacked by the female that went after them, and no one else was around, there is no doubt they would have died. Maybe not eaten successfully, but definitely killed. And, even if we had been around but the first predatory strike was successful, it is quite likely that the person could have had some ribs, or even the spine, broken by the time we had them unwrapped. Don't underestimate the speed at which 200 pounds of snake can move, and the strength they use when they have their prey - they don't want to give it up - try unwrapping a snake from around a caiman - not as necessarily as easy as you'd think.

Second, when you have to catch a large female, use a specific technique. Never assume that your snake is so calm that she will never be a problem. Of course, our wild snakes were never "calm" like a pet. We had a technique that worked fine with just two people - for example, my ex and myself, he's strong, I'm strong for my size (catching many anacondas is a much better workout than Gold's Gym!), but still at 5'3" 105 lbs, I've stood on large snakes and had them lift me entirely off the ground. Stength only goes so far. This technique worked with snakes up to about 16 feet. At that point, a third person will be necessary, even if one of your 2 people is the Hulk.

Once we learned the technique, we went from needing about 5 big people, to just 2 people. The stronger, OR more skilled, handler first goes for the head - for obvious reasons. At the same time, the job of the other person is the keep the 1st 5th of the snake's body - what we call "the evil loop" - from gaining control. The 2nd person job is to keep this 1st fifth from coiling. Sit on it, pull it straight if you are VERY strong, or probably best is to constantly manipulate it, trying to keep it straight, until the snake tires. this can even mean holding the tail and pulling the entire body straight, if possible - simply the tug of war between pulling it straight and the snake resisting, often keeps the "evil loop" from forming.

Regardless, it is this 1st fifth of the body that will immediately try and loop itself over the snake's head AND the handler's hand(s) on it's "neck", since the snake's best option, once it is caught, is to protect it's head, while also trying to push handler #1's hands off of it's head. When I was first learning this through trial and error, I had a snake wrap her coil all the way around my hands (that were holding her head) so that she had me tied up just like handcuffs, and she began pushing my hands over, and off, her "neck", right over her head - not a good position to be in... This is exactly what they will all try and do, no matter what their size, they are always protecting their head. One way to avoid this, is to also constantly switch hands that is holding the head, so that the "loop" cannot get a vantage point (ie. once the loop begins to cover a hand, reach in behind the loop and switch hands holding the head, thus she has to start over forming the loop). It doesn't take long for the snake to tire, about 5 - 10 minutes, luckily.

Even if your snakes are ~calm, having been raised in captivity, this is a good technique to be aware of. And never do what one fellow did, who could win a Darwin Award, since he is no longer with us: he went to feed his retic, and as he needed both hands to unlatch and open the top of the large retic's cage, so he tucked the dead bunny under his chin so both hands were free...you can imagine the rest of the story, hungry retic included.

I hope this description makes sense, it is a bit hard to describe without demonstrating. Rule number one, NEVER handle a 12' or longer retic or anaconda when you are alone. I know you've done it, so have I, but it's just unwise. As with all non-domesticated, wild animals, you can only trust one thing; although you can predict behavior, you can also predict that wild animals are unpredictable. They can behave the same for years, and one day be a little "off", and it is us, the humans, who make the mistake of underestimating them that gets us in trouble. Just ask Roy whats-his-name with the stupid Vegas tiger show...

PS. I just gave a talk about snakes and anacondas to a group of schoolchildren, and I think we now have over 60 8-year old converts of kids who now love anacondas!! Not one of them were afraid of them, either. Not one! Wonderful.

Renee

Rule Number One: Have one person for each six feet of snake. Don't just have them stand by. I don't know any animal that likes to be dragged, pulled, propped, or placed. If you have to move a huge snake, place your buddies for support along the snake's body, with you, of course, at the head. If the snake does become feisty and tries to constrict, it will have the other people along its body to think about too. If you don't have a backup network of people willing to help you, and a vet for that matter, you have no business having a snake of this proportions.

Rule Number Two: Differentiate between the way you approach it when feeding, and when handling. Always feed with long tongs or forcepts, killed prey of course. If you only approach it from one side of its enclosure for feeding and the other side only for handling or maintenence, it should learn to differentiate.

Rule Number Three: Big snakes are made for looking, not playing. Only handle the guy when you absolutely have to. Do regular health checks and whatnot, but don't just mess with him for the hell of it. Think about it. It's got to be very uncomfortable to be so big and heavy while being handled by something small and clumsy.

Those are nice, theoretical, dogmatic rules hardly anyone could argue with. If you follow them, you'll most certainly never have a serious problem. But, chances are your snake will hardly ever get out of its cage too. Of course, the safest thing is just not to have a large snake.

I think even really large snakes deserve to get out, get exercize, etc. Nothing to do with people, I just think its a basic right in life.

But now, lets talk about reality. To follow those rules, one must generally plan for it (having a person for every six feet..). What if you walk in your large anaconda room and it has it's head stuck in a pipe? Going to go round up 5 people? That's just a simple example, don't get hung up on the specifics. I suppose you could leave it alone and hope it doesn't die, up to the individual I suppose. Another issue is what is "large or dangerous"? 12 feet? 14 feet? 14.5 feet? Does a 12 foot carpet python have the stength of a 12 foot anaconda? Maybe we need one person for every 6 feet of carpet python, but one person for every 5 feet of anaconda....
The point is, in real life, there are a lot of variables
and siutations.

One thing I really hate about modern society is that somehow, probably due largely to the media, we expect total safety in life. I personally do not want total safety. Not if you gave it to me for free. I think it was Benjamin Franklin that said "Any man who chooses safety over freedom deserves
neither". I, and I may be in the minority, agree with him. If you look at how Americans have reacted to the recent terrorism stuff, I'm really sure I'm in the minority. I think our reaction, as a country, is shameful, costly, and just plain paranoid and stupid. Life has never been totally safe, it isn't now, and probably never will be. Thank God.

So, my point to all this is, how can we as responsible boid owners be best prepared to handle our large snakes, including "emergencies" where anything is possible? And, realizing, nothing is 100% for sure. I'm not about to say that some of the solutions (conditioning, zap gun...) I've raised will guarantee anything. But I would say it minimizes the risk of fatal situations.

As a society, if we can tolerate 50,000 car deaths a year, 40,000 serious dog bites/deaths, etc, (I just made up those numbers), etc., surely we can tolerate a handful of snake
handler deaths without having to outlaw big snakes. Of course, 0 deaths is best. Which brings us back to Ben Franklin's statement.

Exactly what snakes doe sthis apply to?
I had a 6ft whip snake, and 6ft Red Racer.... A child could have handle them though.
No seriously though. Exactly where does the TOO BIG TO HANDLE ALONE Species begin?
And WHEN do we round theese people up? Every time we want to feed our snake? Clean its enclosure? Clean it's water?
Anything could happen in theese situations, but I'm not rounding up people everytime I need to do them!
And certainly I am not dummy enough to TRY to handle an anaconda that is obviously too big for me to safley handle on my own. I'm way too small for that. I will make a tasty treat for her someday at my size!
But things CAN happen. It is always best to do the research and experiment if you can to have a back up plan!
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http://photos.yahoo.com/gwas79
"The Critters"

It sounds like your snake-in-a-tub may have simply been testing you as a means of leverage to leave the tub. You mentioned he was trying to get out, but couldn't. You also mentioned that he uncoiled after you tried to pull him off. If he was really trying to be defensive or offensive, he wouldn't have left your arm so complacently. You were very a conveniently placed means of escape.

The bigger a snake is, the harder it has to squeeze to maintain its grip on whatever tree (or arm) it's using for support, especially if all of its wieght is on that one coil as its hauling itself up.

Reptiles aren't as simple as some people make them out to be, and not as complex as others would think. 1 1=2.

`
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This would have been a great question before you purchased!

Please tell me why I am wrong, but let me explain how your post may be interpreted by some.

"If I'm real lucky, my baby green will turn out to be a male"

The above statement you made above all else indicates your purchase of a Green was simply impulsive. You have indicated that you have purchased the most masssive species of boid in existence at adult size and you really do not know how to handle the animal? Sexing animals is fairly easy. If your snake is a female, is it simply disposable?

The market price for large boas and pythons is not low without reason. Even if you could handle the animal without danger, would you be willing to do the chore? When you think of the work involved with proper husbandry of a large animal, which is only a few short years away, does the reality having an anaconda seem like it will "get old."

I love anacondas, glad they're on the market. Your question really indicates you did not really plan for the long term with this animal. Some people are really willing to make a lifelong commitment to an animal when they purchase it-I am one of those people so I make purchases of animals only after long deliberation and research. I like Argentines, but thet are the most masssive of boa constrictors, cute and interesting until they get about five feet in reality, cute and interesting at a 11 feet and very fat only in theory. Some people are up for the commitment, I am not.

I suspect this is not where you are coming from, but I wanted to let you know how it could be interpreted.

I did ask the seller and he said it was female. But I don't take that as a truth. The seller also told me it was captive
bred, but I found out it had tapeworms which strongly suggests it is not captive bred. Male or female is OK with me although I would prefer a male. But no big deal. Its sex is not of paramount importance to me, just a convenience.

No, not impuslive. I waited until I found a captive bred (or so told) one that the seller said had a good disposition. Those were my 2 criteria for buying one (besides health). If I got a male, it would just be "lucky" or convenient. If I thought real hard I could probably think of some good reasons
for getting a female (breed...). Again, my main obhective was a captive bred, docile snake that I could and would handle alot, I guess I can say as a "pet" although some people don't like that term.

I am somewhat experienced keeping reptiles (30 years). I raised a hatchling loggerhead sea turtle to 15" in by bedroom (with salt water, obviously). Talk about a chore ! 100 times that of an anaconda. I raised a burmese python from a hatchling to 16 feet for 22 years (died of old age, I guess). Also raised a retic to about 15 feet.

As far as commmitment, another but secondary reason I bought the anaconda when I did is that I have kids who will be moving out in a year or two, thus freeing 2 (anaconda) rooms in my house.

Speaking of boas, back in about 1966 I mail ordered a boa for $35. When it came, it was the most beautiful boa I've ever seen, even to this day. Half the body length was vermillion (the color). It was 14 feet long, nasty as hell, as big around as a large watermelon. Bit the hell out of me. It stood up, hissed and growled at me, raised its head 3 feet off the ground, I could see all 3 feet down its throat. Died about 4 days later, bad handling/shipping I presume.

Anyway, I got lucky with this anaconda. I take it out for an hour about every other day, sometimes more often. Eats great now. Has never bitten or showed any sign of aggressiveness at all, zip. So, I think I'm lucky and got a good one (given I had to mail order it).

Anyway, thanks for the comments, and you are probably right, some of this stuff could be taken wrong. Kinda hard to fully explain things using a forum like this. Poor substitute for conversation. Regards.

an ideal anaconda owner as I am sure many others here are.
Thank you for your reply and the time it took to write it.
Of all people who purchase "baby large snakes" it is really great to hear about someone who really does have the resources, will and determination to be a good steward of such remarkable animals.
It was really great to hear your reply. Thank you again!
Matt

Thanks for your kind words. You know, none of us are perfect. I'm a reasonably smart guy, have a degree in computer science from the University of Texas, both my parents are university professors, yah yah yah... but I've made some pretty serious mistakes in my 48 years. Basically stupid ones.

I think DFR? put it really well, he said something like "the poor guy already has his anaconda, let's help him take good care of it". That should be the KingSnake.com motto. I think that should be the underlying spirit of this forum. Maybe, a potential anaconda buyer, after reading this forum, might decide not to buy one. Or maybe he will. At least they have the benefit from our experiences. Regards, take care.

I dont think you are looking at it from all sides.
Obviously the person knew what they were getting into when they bought the snake. They knew they could expect a snake as large as a female. PREFERABLY they would have liked it to turn out a male. But they are prepared for a female if that is the case.
I personally wanted female. For my own reasons. But I would be much happier with the males size myself as well. I think anyone would agree to that.
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http://photos.yahoo.com/gwas79
"The Critters"

On your imply that you have a baby anaconda and it's never to early to consider what it will take to handle it when it's big, I would just like to add that you are too late. You should've considered this before buying your new pet.

I've done some work experience at Reptile World in Alberta and he says spraying the animal with cold water is awesome at getting them to stop constricting. He has wash hoses near every cage for cleaning. Handling should obviously be done with two capable people at hand cuz you can't do much with 180 plus lbs on you.
I agree with many of the other replys that limiting handling is the best and coax/lead the snake if necessary.

Well, I don't think its too late. I'm sitting here with a 50" baby anaconda...I figure I have a year or two to work things out. All I'm trying to do on this forum is refine some ideas. See my post below, I think about 2 lines or so, about my old burmese...

I'll add the cold wash to my list of things to handle large anacondas. Thanks.

But, I do differ on the handling issue. I am, and will, and plan to handle the heck out of this snake. I do it very gently without alarming or stressing it (as far as I can tell). I don't want a showpiece, I want a docile, calm, handleable, snake that can interact with me. Purely for selfish reasons, I just enjoy handling large snakes. But I don't want to die either. So far, I've taken my anaconda out for exercise 3 times a week (at least), for 5 months now. So, I've taken him out 60 times without incident. Hope to keep that record. Regards.

` My tamest Anaconda, a Yellow, grew up in my shirt pocket, and around my neck, in an exotic pet store. Everybody handled him, he ate pre-killed rodents out of my hand, and swam with the Discus and Angelfish. This went on four days a week, for his first two years. He got too much food, but tremendous amounts of exercise.
` Now he is a giant male, 10 feet, at five years old, almost 30 pounds. He gets presented to students in schools, and surfs the crowd, going from kid to kid. He does not seem to mind anything. I believe it's partly because he was handled so much, he just thinks it's normal. He was born quite tame, also.
` If you have a gentle Anaconda, that doesn't stress with handling, I say handle it as much as it allows.
`

`

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In my life I'm going to:
1. Catch and handle venimous reptiles.
Why? Cause I'm crazy.
2. I'm going to handle my Green as often as possible, and let her roam the living room.
Why? Cause "I" think she deserves this. And "I" want to.
3. Either die from doing this, or die of old age.
Either way, I had my fun. I did what I loved. I lived a good happy life.

It is someones own decision how they want to raise thier animals. What they want to do with thier lives. The risks they choose to take. The responsabilities they choose to have by taking theese animals in to thier home.
It is thier job to know what they are getting into. To know the danger. And to except the responsability of whatever happens to them. Be prepared for the worst. No matter who you are, what you know, how safe you think you are being with the animal, be prepared...to die. If you are not prepared to be killed for any reason no matter how safe you think your being, or how much you know, if your not ready to die because you chose to own this deadly animal, then and only then have you made the mistake of bringing it in to your home.
If you want to hold it every day. That is YOUR decision.
If you want to lock it up and never hold it unless absolutely nessicary. YOUR decision. Kiss your agressive 20 ft Green Female on the lips....YOUR DESICION.
Be ready for the consiquences.
It's YOUR life. Live it the way you want.
Enough said?
Now people are coming here for advice. Answers to thier questions. Lets try to answer them instead of bashing them.
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http://photos.yahoo.com/gwas79
"The Critters"

Hey zoolady. What you and I don't understand and can't get thru our heads is that

1) the government wants to take care of us, telling us
how to live, what to smoke, what to eat, what to drink...
(but not pay for it).

2) the majority of Americans have fallen for this. They want
to participate in telling us how to live. They actually,
really, honestly believe it is the governments responsibilty
to care of us.

Oh, the shame of it all. The most disgusting part is that this is not what America was built on. As you know, all of our freedoms are RAPIDLY being eroded, whether it is keeping an anaconda or having a cigarette on the street.

People are thinking you don't have the right to catch venomous snakes. You might hurt yourself! You aren't responsible for your actions, somebody else is! Oh, it is so depressing thinking about where we are headed, I pity our future generations. Spill (hot!) coffee on your lap? Sue McDonalds of course! You're not responsible!

I hate to sound sexist, but I'm going to do it this one time. I wish our male population would stand up for our rights, have some guts, quit worrying about their hair cut, and quit being such wimps. Some of those new TV shows (Quee eye for the...) make me absolutly sick. Be a man. Support snakes!

Of course, we know the root of most of these type problems. People have TOO MUCH leisure time on their hands.

TRUE TRUE!
But then...I have LOTS of leisure time on my hands.....
So why am I not one of the idiots?
Or am I the idiot?
Who's the real idiot here?
I'm confused.

Well, I've never gone with the crowd. Never done things the way the government says I should do them. I live my life the way I want. Shame on me huh? I might get hurt. So what? I could die tomarrow in a car accident, or tornado, or flood, or whatever.
What are they gonna do about that? Who will they blame that on?
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http://photos.yahoo.com/gwas79
"The Critters"

TRUE TRUE!
But then...I have LOTS of leisure time on my hands.....
So why am I not one of the idiots?
Or am I the idiot?
Who's the real idiot here?
I'm confused.

ITS LATE. I HEARBY SUBMIT TO YOUR FEMINISTIC LOGISTICAL SUPERIORITY. I DON'T KNOW WHY. PERHAPS WE ARE ALL IDIOTS.

Well, I've never gone with the crowd. Never done things the way the government says I should do them. I live my life the way I want. Shame on me huh? I might get hurt. So what? I could die tomarrow in a car accident, or tornado, or flood, or whatever.
What are they gonna do about that? Who will they blame that on?

THE CAR ACCIDENT WILL BE BLAMED ON THE CAR MANUFACTURER. THE TORNADO WILL BE BLAMED ON FAULTY WEATHER FORECASTING, THE FLOOD
WILL BE BLAMED ON LACK OF PROPER CITY DRAINAGE.

GOOD NIGHT TO ONE AND ALL.

>>A couple things I've thought about include:

>>1) use a transparent shield as some zoos do. So-So solution.
>>2) have a stun gun available? Who knows? Who wants to test it?
>>3) have alcohol or whisky available, has been
>>reported to work pretty well to release bites.
>>4) Would cologne prevent a feeding response? Not so much as
>>to irrate the snake, but enough to tell it, hey, I'm not
>>food. Or some other scent?
>>5) I suppose a snake stick is always handy.

I suppose a shield would work, though it seems it'd be in the way when not in use. A divider for the cage though, seems like a good idea, especially for cleaning around feeding day.

I don't think a stun-gun (cattle prod) would work. In fact, I think if you inflict pain on it while it's constricting or biting, it's going to think the "prey" is fighting back and just bite down harder and squeeze harder. (I got bit in a tender place my a blood python (I know, not large, but BIG teeth). I tried one struggle..and the increased flowing blood persuaded me to stop.)
Alcohol, drinking variety, I've heard works. I keep some high proof mead, and bacardi, around...mostly for the possibility of being bitten. Very warm water, or cold water is supposed to work well too. However, the only time I wanted to do that I didn't have a water source around to use.

Smelly stuff (ie perfumes, colognes) should convince them that you're not food. They do have great sense of smell, and most of those smelly things taste bad too. (I was a kid at one time.) Definitely avoid musky stuff (some prey animals produce musk too). Fruity or flowery....try "perfume" oils. The Body Shop has a nice selection and they are not all "female" scents. (I have ginger and grape fruit for example.)
I feed in a separate cage, but when your baby is full grown that's not an option. Definitely start conditioning that a tap by a non-pointy stick means you're going to handle, on the head or body. They can learn by repetition that the tap means you're going to handle them.

I think that the more you handle the snake (while not stressing them) the more calm they will be about it as an adult. As long as there is no major handling dry-spells.

Being as prepared as possible for the unexpected and not trusting your snake is the best you can do. I have a huge medical care kit for mine (and me). Don't confuse trusting with good familiarity with your snake's behavior. Example: You could trust it not to bite, not look at it for a moment, and walk into the cage; or watch a moment, see that it's body language says "I couldn't care less about you" and walk into the cage. The later should become so routine normal that you don't normally notice yourself doing it.

And that concludes my long response
Siri Lin

"I keep some high proof mead, and bacardi, around...mostly for the possibility of being bitten." Yeah, right. Just kidding.

That divider idea is good and I'm going to add it to my list.
I just emailed 4 stun-gun makers to see what their thoughts are (at least about its effectiveness). I'm sure they won't know about the anaconda's reaction (zoolady-are you there?) but they might know something. Will also add hot/cold water spraying.

Thanks for your response. Sounds like you have already given it some serious thought.

I have heard about the cold/hot water method both working and also NOT workinng. Someone just the other day said that they were spraying thier snakes scales with warm water and it got mad and quickly threw coils around thier arm and started consticting it. So I wouldnt use that as one of my methods.
The Alcohol.....I have not heard of it NOT working. I've heard many cases of it doing the trick quickly. But you have to make sure YOU DONT DRINK IT ALL ANACONDAKEEPER!!!! What goods it gonna do you then? Well, you'll die a happy drunk? P
And you KNOW my answer to the stun gun! NO NO NO and NO some more!
And I also agree with the other person about them. The snake would probably just think the animal (you) it is trying to kill is struggling and hurting it which would just make it squeeze harder. I'm thinking......BAD IDEA.
I'll go with the shield, divider, and alcohol.
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http://photos.yahoo.com/gwas79
"The Critters"

I agree warm water might not have the intended affect. Perhaps cold water, or pretty hot water is needed. Hmmm. Would make sense to me that very cold water might be best. Kinda like a cold shower, if you know what I mean.

I emailed 4 zap gun manufacturers to get their opinions, which will probably be they don't know. But, if they need a test anaconda, would you mind giving us your address? Thanks.

I second the no warm water usage! We have to remember that reptiles are the same temperature as their surroundings. Tissues die when too hot or too cold. Dieing tissues hurt, especially hot ones. Water that feels warm to us is 80-90 degrees farenheight. I think that's getting close to pushing it for some snakes, even when allowed to warm up slowly. Being exposed to water would heat them up or cool them down super fast. If someone were burning me, I'd bite him too.

Cool herps can't move very quickly.

I did say VERY warm water. Not enough to burn on contact, but enough to be unpleasant for the snake. The point of using cold or Really warm water is that the sudden temperature change will be unpleasant enough to make getting away from it top priority, as opposed to constricting it's keeper.

I'd be very surprised if that warm-water spray down was any warmer then baby-bath water (a.k.a. baby-bottle warm, luke warm, pzz warm).

This discussion has made me start thinking about my dream snake house, a specially adapted and planted greenhouse. When I win the super lotto....

Siri Lin

Wouldn't the electricity pass through the snake into your own body? Before "stunning" the snake AND yourself, maybe someone should take a dead snake(I'm sure we all know someone who has one in the freezer), thaw it, wrap around your arm, zap and see what happens. It would be better to find out this way than with a live, possibly angry, 14 foot plus snake. I've heard arguments that went to both sides of this idea but does anyone actually KNOW how much of a danger a secondary zap would be?

You're right about this stuff, that's why I wish zoolady would loan us her anaconda for testing. But, you know, even if you got stunned (and the snake), it might be worth it to get out of the situation.

That dead snake idea is a good suggestion, short of zoolady's anaconda. I'll bet the zap gun manufacturers are pretty knowledgeable about secondary zaps.

Heh, I bet the manufacturers never counted on having their product used on a subject that is grounded in one of their clients

I should have explained my question better--what if you're better grounded than the snake? Wouldn't a large snake recover from the zap first? Then you'd have a large, very angry snake that was already trying to kill you and you have less capacity for defense.
As much as I like the "big guys" there's a reason I stick to the "sub-8 footers".

I'm trying to get some of the zap gun manufacturers to comment on this stuff...we'll see if they respond at all.

I think it's a really bad idea, for the snake and "prey" (keeper). Anyway, according to a very good friend of mine, who's an electrician, electricity will always go to the ground via the path of least resistance. Therefore, stunning anything that's touching you, if the stun-target is off the ground, means the charge will pass from it through you to the ground. However, if the stun-target is touching the ground, the shock will either go through it to the ground, or through you. It will depend on which is better insulated. If you're wearing shoes and part of the snake is on the ground, the shock will mostly go through the snake into the ground, you will get some amount of a zap, but not as much.

Stun guns (or cattle prods) use voltage to work. Amperage kills, voltage messes up nerve firing and hurts really really bad. (I've been zapped by an electric livestock fence...it HURTS and my arm was numb for an hour or so).

Hope that kinda helps. I still think it's just going to injure the snake and make it really pissed off, hence want to kill the thing that made it hurt.

Siri Lin
p.s. very interesting discussion...very fun to read!!

If your anaconda is only 4' long and you already don't trust it, how can you expect to handle it safely and confidently even now. Didn't you think about this before you got it? Have you considered getting a snake that doesn't scare you, a baby corn snake for example. It might save you having to buy a stun gun (or maybe not) and you can drink your own whiskey aswell!!!

I suppose I should clarify.

When I say "handle," I mean trying to haul the snake from one point to another. Obviously when your herp is still 12 feet and under, the ordeal is not as stressful for the snake. So, if when 20 feet long, you have to haul the snake out for exercise and haul him back into his enclosure, then yes, it is best for the snake if you have one person per 6' of snake. If you have to haul him to the vet, have one person per 6' of snake. Whether you agree or not, whether you have enough people or not, this IS the safest way to move a huge snake. You asked.

The best way to keep it is for it to have its own room for an enclosure, or microhabitat. It gets plenty of exercise without roaming around the house. You don't expose it to the stress of being manhandled. This way you can also ensure that you don't find the poor guy with "his head stuck in a pipe."

You of course don't have to have multiple people there to INTERACT with your large snake. Health checks, petting, and simply being in the presence of your snake should be part of a daily routine. Keeping your full grown Anaconda in such a small enclosure that it needs to get out for exercise is utterly impractical, and results in more stress for your animal.

There's nothing wrong with keeping a large herp, as long as you do it right. Make a habitat for him in an enclosed room with 'trees' for him to climb, a pool for him to soak in, logs for him to crawl over, or into, hot spot and cool spot, etc. In a situation like this, your snake won't be territorial since you've been handling him so much. In my experience, letting a snake of any size wander around the house is an accident waiting to happen, whether to you or the snake, even when supervised. If the snake is too big to remain on your person, he needs a safe place of his own to wander around.

Furthermore, the best way to handle a dangerous situation is to simply avoid it. When a snake is 'exploring,'he is figuring out his surroundings--he may be more prone to defensive behavior. If you interact with him in his own space instead of hauling him out into another, the likelihood of him being defensive is significantly lessened. Additionally, when we start handling large snakes, no matter how practiced we are, or careful we try to be, we are still clumsy, scrape scales, or otherwise could cause enough discomfort to the snake to cause him to retaliate. It's simple action-reaction.

If you do get bitten and/or constricted by your anaconda,the best thing to do is to RELAX. I'm not sure if the credit card trick will work on a mouth of this size, but I've used it on smaller snakes. I always have one handy when "handling" snakes. However, the bigger fuss you make if a serpent attacks, the longer it will take for him to let go, and the harder he will squeeze. It's a natural reaction for them to hold tighter the things that struggle harder. Constricter's action-reaction.

If I were a 20 ft anaconda,and the person I am attacking has managed to drag my bulk all the way to his stockpile, the use of alcohol or perfume would just piss me off more. I might let go of the one appendage and try to grab the one that is assailing me with offensive chemicals. Talk about escalating the situation. None of the zoos I have worked for or heard of have used these as a method of dislodging snakes. And who knows how well a tazer will work through the scales, or what damage it would do to the snake.

Lowering the temperature of the snake is the best suggestion I've heard for people who can't stay calm enough to relax and sit there until the guy lets go. That could result in broken bones, but so could struggling with the snake (especially with noxious chemicals), and I know there are those of us here that would rather us get hurt than our snakes...and take the consequences of our actions. Every bite that occurs is our fault, period.

I'd like to conclude with an observation. Take from it what you will. There were people who ignored AnacondaKeeper's request for information and berated him for having a large species, and not knowing exactly what to do with it. That sucks. The "no keep" wagoneers are only promoting ignorance. Asking for suggestions does not mean he wasn't prepared for his animal. It means he cares about it. On a different note, AnacondaKeeper was also a little defensive for someone who is seeking information. Instead of attacking suggestions you don't understand by calling them "not in the real world" or comparing some of the users to brainwashed government lovers, he might want to ask for further details, and ignore the people who simply react to the topic. If not, specify exactly what you want to hear, so those of us who don't have the words you want to hear don't waste our time. For example, did you want to hear "You are so cool for keeping an Anaconda until fully grown! It's safe to let a wild animal explore unnatural conditions when fully grown. You're tough enough to handle it yourself, but if it bites you, then try using [insert harmful anti-snakebite here]? Or did you truly want a diverse selection of suggestions for caring for your animal?

Finally, it is possible to keep a large herp in ideal captive conditions. It's a pain in the ass. But it's possible. Just because it will be difficult to attain the ideal doesn't mean it's not possible. I'm lucky enough to live in a state that has a herpetological society, so there is always a network of people I can contact if I need to. I'm sure there are four or five herp nuts near you. Find em, and start your own network. It's only responsible to be prepared, and it will help to restore herp-keepers' bad reps everywhere.

` I'm sorry we haven't heard from the Redhed, on this topic. She certainly has more experience than all of us put together, in handling a large constrictor that isn't cooperative.

` Hey, Renee, what are your thoughts on this topic?

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I'd like to make two points about handling large snakes. I have 4 burmese pythons in the 10-14 ft range. First, a cold carbonated soda poured in a snake's mouth will make it release. I personally don't like the idea of burning my snake's mouth with alcohol if I don't have to when something cold and bubbly gets its attention. Second, at least have someone close enough to hear you if you need help. Alcohol, water, or a can of Coke won't make your snake release if there's no one to pour it, and if your snake has you wrapped in a feeding response, there is no guarantee you can be in position to get the snake off. These are just personal rules that I follow. Good luck all.
Jody

Thanks, I'll add that to my list of defensive tactics. Regards.

There has been a lot of good dialogue on this topic, probably one of the best discussions so far on the anaconda forum. I think it all boils down to one basic rule. When your large constrictor reaches a size that you no longer feel comfortable handling alone, then that is the point where you need to have assistance from another person. This size will vary greatly for each person depending on their ability and experience, the individual snake, and the species involved. For some this may be 10 feet, for others 16. But by far the best chance that you will have to survive a feeding constriction by a boid over 16 or 18 feet is to have another person or persons available. At the least, they should be able to keep you from being suffocated, or get assistance from others. Alcohol, stun guns, whatever, won’t do much good when you are incapacitated on the floor with nobody else around. As a beginner in the late 70’s I made a stupid error and was mistaken for food by a heavy bodied 14 foot Burmese. Although my life was not in danger, between the teeth and the coils, I was pretty much incapacitated. There was no way I could have reached any device that would have helped my situation. It would be hard to imagine the power of an 18 or 20 footer in feeding mode. I don't believe a lone individual would have a chance. As it was, after a few minutes it realized I wasn’t what it thought I was and let go. I’ve never had a bite of that magnitude since. We all pretty much know our limitations, and what we can get away with in dealing with our individual snakes. The chances you take with one snake, you would not attempt with another. It mostly comes down to common sense, and not putting yourself in the position of a potential serious situation. Working with a powerful 150 to 300 pound predator is going to be a risk, its that simple, and there is always the possibility of an accident. If you are not willing to accept that risk, then you should not be working with the larger constrictors. If however you are accepting of this risk, and the rewards and satisfaction of maintaining these incredible animals, at least be responsible enough to get assistance when you feel that you should.

Kelly

How about pepper spray? Does anyone have experience with it?

Hey, zoolady, since you have been so uncooperative and unwilling to test a zap gun, perhaps you would be civic minded enough to test pepper spray for us. Wait until you feed your anaconda, and the snake is tightly coiled around the sugar glider or ferret, then blast a shot of pepper spray in the anaconda's face. Let us know what happens. Be sure to record the type and make of pepper spray, since this is a scientific study. Regards. You can make up for your past unwillingness with this one.

I just wanted to make sure you appreciate my role
in this study. I've searched the internet and the
literature, and could find no articles on shooting
a snake in the face with pepper spray, not a one.
So, you will truly be a pioneer in this new scientific
field of anaconda behavior. Also, my anaconda will
act as the control specimen for the test. I will
shoot my anaconda in the face with water. Please
spray your anaconda in the face with the pepper
spray for at least 3 seconds, longer if it makes you happy.
When we are done, perhaps we can author an article
for Nature or Scientific American, entitled
"Consequences and Behavorial Aspects of Shooting
Eunectes Murinus in the Face with Pepper Spray".
Regards.

HAHAHA. WHY ARE YOU SO MEAN TO ME?! You hate me and my cute fuzzys and my sweet beautiful conda too dont you!!! lol
How about we cut out the word spray and add Dr. to the front of that. To make Dr.pepper? I like the cold soda idea alot better than any of the others.
And as for the gliders how about NO.
And the ferrets....are big enough to kill the snake first. So I would be trying to find something to make THEM let go b4 her.
How about we try using some of your lovely critters with MY snake and use the Dr.Pepper idea? THATS A GREAT COMPRIMISE!!! heheheh
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http://photos.yahoo.com/gwas79
"The Critters"

Sounds to me like you didn't do your homework before buying your Conda. You could have easily had it sexed to be sure you would have a male. If you are considering a stun gun, then there is definitely a problem. A keeper has the obligation to respect his or her animals, but to have an animal that you fear is just rediculous. I could be wrong, but it seems you got this snake more to impress others than anything else. I hope for the snake's sake that it is a male, because I foresee you trying to find it a new home if it passes 12'. Again, I could be wrong. Please don't make the snake pay for your lack of preparation, and good luck.

Here's basically the same response I gave to someone else who had some comments like yours. With some more stuff.

I did ask the seller and he said it was female. But I don't take that as a truth. The seller also told me it was captive
bred, but I found out it had tapeworms which strongly suggests it is not captive bred. Male or female is OK with me although I would prefer a male. But no big deal. Its sex is not of paramount importance to me, just a convenience.

I waited until I found a captive bred (or so told) one that the seller said had a good disposition. Those were my 2 criteria for buying one (besides health). If I got a male, it would just be "lucky" or convenient. If I thought real hard I could probably think of some good reasons
for getting a female (breed...). Again, my main obhective was a captive bred, docile snake that I could and would handle alot, I guess I can say as a "pet" although some people don't like that term.

I am somewhat experienced keeping reptiles (30 years). I raised a hatchling loggerhead sea turtle to 15" in by bedroom (with salt water, obviously). Talk about a chore ! 100 times that of an anaconda. I raised a burmese python from a hatchling to 16 feet for 22 years (died of old age, I guess). Also raised a retic to about 15 feet.

As far as commmitment, another but secondary reason I bought the anaconda when I did is that I have kids who will be moving out in a year or two, thus freeing 2 (anaconda) rooms in my house.

Anyway, the real bottom line I've been trying to get across (unsuccessfully, I guess), is that sometimes unexpected things happen, EVEN WITH GOOD PLANNING. For the life of me, I don't see why this is so difficult to understand. A stun gun, pepper sray, or whatever is only a backup measure, but it does seem likely they could save someone in those rare, unusual circumstances.

Take that guy (Roy) that got bit by his pet tiger. It seems to me, that his injuries could have been much less if he had a can of pepper spray (or stun gun) on him. Again, nothing is 100% for sure, another concept people have problems understanding. Yes, if did have pepper spray, maybe he couldn't get it out of his pocket...da..da...da. Such is life. You get eaten by a tiger.

I guess I'd sum it up as follows. If I ever do get attacked by my large anaconda, FOR WHATEVER REASON, I'd rather have a defensive tool available to me (whether stun gun, pepper spray, hot water, etc.) than not. That's all. Seems to be the intelligent thing to do, does it not???????

` People seem to fall into groups, in regard to how they process information. The people who treat new information as a unique experience are the minority. Most have to measure it by something that they already know. That often compromises their ability to move on to a concept they haven't considered before. Their preconceptions, and prejudices, keep them from being able to leap to a new idea, then balance on it to see it it will support them.
` You can try to inform them until you're exhausted. It almost always turns out to be a waste of your time. Many times they will collect around a concept that is unknown to them and collectively throw dogma at it, trying to bury it. That process works more often than understanding.
` Also, once they've got you busy explaining something they're never going to understand, they've gotcha. It keeps you from talking to anyone else who might embrace your concept, then figure out whether it holds water or not. It is sort of like trying to explain a rainbow to an earthworm. It ain't a gonna happen. Shine 'em on, I say!

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I think you're right. I think I'll post my findings (suggested defense tools) in a day or two, and then leave it at that. Hey, you got a full body pic of that pink sided boa? Regards.

Hey before you go throwing out crap at people why dont you read up on ALL the past posts that have been made on the subject?
Rediculous to have to keep explaining theese things over and over.
Any luck with finding a cooperative partner for your research Keeper? PPPt
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http://photos.yahoo.com/gwas79
"The Critters"

Nah, I don't think I'll use my other pets as anaconda
food. (My wife has two cats....thinking about those...).
But I do like your Dr. Pepper idea.

Well, I guess this is one area of scientific research and human
knowledge that isn't going to get answered any time
soon. Keep us posted how your anaconda is doing.

` From a while back, when he was more orange, and a lot smaller.

` More recent.

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