Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I would like to see any and all Jungles that are out there. Bloodlines are not important, but I do ask that you keep it to PROVEN lines of Jungles.
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@cox.net

>>I would like to see any and all Jungles that are out there. Bloodlines are not important, but I do ask that you keep it to PROVEN lines of Jungles.
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>>Brian Oakley
>>Phoenix, Arizona
>>BrianOakley@cox.net
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I have posted these before, but I'll gladly do it again. I'm a proud Mom, here!! These are two males from Mike and Jeremy's '03 litter and are descendants of the Swedish line. I am in love with them and can't wait to see what they produce down the road when mated with a couple of my Ghost girlies.

I have been following this whole series of "Jungle" threads with a degree of astonishment. Personally, I would never dream of posting pics of an aberrant patterned or unusual colored boa of unknown lineage, and calling it a Jungle...but then, that's just me.

Regarding the real-deal Jungles and other morphs that have been proven out by dedicated people: The people who discovered, and spent the time and effort to prove them out genetically have every right to name them. My feeling is that others should allow them the respect of that "name". I also feel these animals are worth a higher price tag, because part of it is knowing that this trait will be expressed in the babies these boas produce. Who knows how many other traits are out there just waiting to be discovered and proved out? There are zillions of words in our language. Why deliberately choose one everyone already recognizes as a genetic line unto itself? To me...it is disrespectful.

I'M SORRY THAT YOU FEEL THAT WAY. YOUR ANIMALS ARE VERY NICE, BUT IN MY OPINION THESE ARE NICER. I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE NAME. I BREED, BUY, TRADE AND SELL THE BEST QUALITY ANIMALS AVAILABLE.

>>I'M SORRY THAT YOU FEEL THAT WAY. YOUR ANIMALS ARE VERY NICE, BUT IN MY OPINION THESE ARE NICER. I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE NAME. I BREED, BUY, TRADE AND SELL THE BEST QUALITY ANIMALS AVAILABLE.
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You take much better pics than I. Most of my pics suck because I'm just like Mr. Miller.....an idiot with digital camera set on automatic - point and click mode

That said...in my opinion, Jungles have a very different look from your snake, there. I will guarantee you my pics of my Jungles do them NO JUSTICE AT ALL. They are drop-dead gorgeous "in snake". Your boa is beautiful as well in a different way. In fact, when I first saw pics of them a while back, I thought about emailing you and pursuing a purchase of one....just because I liked the look. But I didn't because you have never responded to any of my past inquiries about your sale animals and I figured this email would be ignored as well.

it is good not to drop to others levels.

from shaking my head back and forth in amazement

PLEASE GIVE ME A CALL ANYTIME. 423-822-7878

"Best quality animals available" is subjective language that means nothing to me and a lot of others.

Although, in a humorous light, it reminds me of a guy with a big cowboy hat who comes on my TV at night and invites me down to the Deal-o-rama car lot where he's got the "best deals on the best cars."

So thanks for that, I guess.

I agree there are tons of names in the Webster Dictionary. Using the word American Jungle is too close for comfort. With all the morph names out there, it confuses the begginers and novice herpers who think they're getting a good deal $$$ on a jungle.

Bill I'm sure you don't mean to make waves, but even when you say you just love boas like we all do, it comes accross as business, to many of the readers on the forum. Because it seems like you try to capitalize on the name of an expensive morph that has been proven genetic.

They are truly nice looking boas, but just change the name and as Brian said, prove the aberrant genetic pattern. And if you do that, then call it whatever you want.

Regards,
Derek

Names given to specific morphs should be recognized and respected as they represent proven genetic mutations. A designation like jungle not only describes an appearance but also a pattern of inheritance. In my opionion to advertize an animal as a jungle you must not only see a jungle-like pattern but also know the genetics of the animal because the buyer will expect those genetics in the animal. Furthermore the appearance may not even be genetic even though it looks similar to the known jungle mutation and must be proven genetic to call an animal a jungle. Suppose Sharp strain and Kahl strain albinos were just sold as albinos. They do look similar but are genetically destinct and need to be designated as such as breeding them together would not produce albinos.

After proving a look alike animal is genetic then there is the question of compatability with the original genetic mutation. If someones newly proven animal that looks like a jungle is proven to not be compatable with the original then it needs another designation such as type 2 jungle which recognizes that the animal is genetic, looks like the given recognized morph, and is genetically destinct from the original.

Uniform usage of terminology is important to both the buyer and seller and to the Herp community at large. We should all strive to be uniformly consistent in the use of these terms as we apply them to the animals we work with.

Bill Kirby

"AMERICAN JUNGLES" AND ADVERTISED THEM AS "NOT RELATED TO THE EUROPEAN LINE." THANKS FOR YOUR INTELLIGENT REPLY.

THESE SHOULD HOLD THEIR VALUE MUCH BETTER THAN THE COLOMBIAN VARIETY. BRAZILIAN AMARALI ARE STILL QUITE RARE AND ARE NOT BRED BY NOVICE KEEPERS VERY OFTEN, LIKE THE COLOMBIANS AND CROSSBREEDS. THESE ARE F4 ANIMALS FROM LLOYD LEMKE. THEY WERE HAND PICKED BY MY FRIEND KELLY JAMES. SHE IS A GOOD PERSONAL FRIEND OF SONNY AND LLOYD'S. THEY JUST PRODUCED ANOTHER CLUTCH OF 19 AND SOME CARRY THE SAME PATTERN. I HOPE THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR BRIAN.

so im confused.... i thought these were the genetic striped line of BCA. The GS line to my knowledge is a proven simple recessive trait... are these the same with a different name, or something new?
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recycle your pets

Ok so Bill let me get something straight here.

Anyone breeding columbians, or morphs (crossbreeds whatever term you want to use) is just a novice.

Your statement in that thread reads to me that only people working with local specific boas are "true breeders" or "quality breeders" or "experienced breeders".

Ive always believed if you produced animals while trying to breed them you would be more then just a novice. I also would have to argue that not just anyone can toss boas together and get babies, no matter what the locale. I have alot of respect for ANYONE who produces ANY herps, includeing yourself.

That being said your marketing techniques leave alot to be desired.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

Here is a link to the "Morph Page". Classic example of a Jungle.

Thanks to Pete Kahl and Jeremy Stone for these pics.
Jungle Boa

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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@cox.net

Here is one of mine, (true jungle boa proven co-dom from swedish bloodline).

boamorphs.co.uk

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with regards

Chris Gillam

I AM IMPRESSED WITH YOUR ANIMAL, BUT IT DOESN'T LOOK ANY BETTER THAN THE ONES I HAVE AT A FRACTION OF THE PRICE.