Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Thats a lot of money. I love lecusistics but serouisly thats a big lump of cash. and thats for a het pair. You could buy a hummer for that money. Im not trying to put down people that would but i mean thats a lot of MONEY.

they will come down in time....

there are alot better colored snakes out there.....

really.....they are white....whoopee........

caramel better.....bumblebee better......pastel better....orange ghost better......caramel spider better........

yep.......

$75,000 ....pay off house.......new car...all bills......live well the rest of your life......

I know...someone will say....get it and make millions.....well..it could die...it could be sterile.....(alot of sterile snakes out there).....it cold escape(alot of that happens too)....it could get stolen......

anyways.........

........don't matter....the government spends my money for me...(in all the wrong ways)......

.......

Moot point since I don't have $7,500 much less $75,000. There is something about a white snake, sort of the Holy Grail some of us have been waiting quite a while for.

I'm thinking that even with all the leucistic type snakes out there now it's still the time for insane price tags. The price tag is sort of an advertisement for what a great morph it is. If I had some I don't think I would want to actually sell any yet, but put a high enough price on them and if somebody with a big roll of cash wants one bad enough you are well paid for letting a new competitor into the small club.

Of course the down side of super high initial price is that it's bound to fall quick and cause some panic and more tension in an already tense industry. I have actually heard of someone mortgaging their house to buy a morph that then died so it's not always a big cat with mad money to invest buying these things.

Heck, maybe the high price tag will establish a trade value for other high price tag morphs to build a nicer collection. Who cares if anyone actually pulls out the cash to buy snakes at those prices or not?

Would you pay $41 billion dollars for a wireless telephone company? That’s what Cingular is doing. That is, paying $41 billion dollars for AT&T wireless and becoming the largest wireless carrier in the United States. By purchasing AT&T wireless Cingular finally beats out its number one competitor (Verizon Wireless) after many years of trying. Seems like a smart move for Cingular.

As Albert Einstein said ... "It’s all relevant"

-adam

or was that "relative"? ...

They say they get pretty good mileage, though.

n/p

Is a LECUSITIC some new model of Ford that has just come out?

So, does a white snake with blue eyes that has a faint yellow pattern/stripe still a true leucy?

Or does "leucy" stand for bright white, patternless? (like the black eyed)

Just wondering!

reps-r-us
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reps-r-us

Oh no,lets not open that can of worms again.

Type one and two, a marketing ploy from the Texas Ball Breeders.
I want them all, but aren't they a little pricey? Shewwww.
Sizzel

I'm not aware of VPI having leucistics so I'm not thinking their suggestions on the types was any sort of marketing ploy. I think it was an effort to make sense of the different types, some of which don't completely fit the preconceived notion of what a leucistic should look like. Unfortunately, with a numbering name scheme someone had to be type I and someone type III so it quickly became very political. However I think with all the leucistics that came out in 2003 the Barkers where just ahead of their time in trying to bring some order. It will be rather confusing and interesting trying to figure all this out in the next decade or so. They are all freaking awesome so hopefully more of the breeder sites will update their information with het pictures and the like for us have-nots to drool over.

Sizzel

There are too many popping out of nowhere to pay that much for a het animal. There seems to be too many ways to produce these animals or so people claim. Especially for animals that random people that had no idea they were hatching are popping out these snakes. Anybody at any time could hatch one of these it seems but there is also some characteristics that the parents tend to have as well that differentiates them a little from a wild type, high gold, yellow bottoms etc...But that's not usually noticed until after a lucy pops out. Beautiful animals dont get me wrong, worth 150k each.....eh

i wouldn't, until someone proves that its a simple recesive. who knows, those 4 ( i think its only 4) could just be some kind of fluke.

Here is a link for you to check out about it being proven genetic.
Het Lucy

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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@cox.net

A hummer would conservatively depreciate , what 10-20% of paid value in the first couple of years . A pair of het lucy's could conservatively make you several tens of thousands in 3-4 years.
But hey you would look COOL in the hummer. I apologise if i sound like a smart ass, just tired of people saying what a waste of time high end snake morphs are, yet people spend big $ on the craziest things. Good luck on your breeding everybody. don
Link

...is ACTUALLY paying $75,000 for these snakes? Is it all of the other "high end" morph breeders? Are these new morphs just traded to other breeders for other sought after, expenisive animals as well? My guess is that this is the case 9/10 times. There probably are not alot of folks out there with 75 large to "invest" in a pair of snakes. Especially when the well known breeders with that kind of money have been on the waiting list for a year or more. I am guessing that "Joe Shmoe Python Inc." is not going to be showcasing their new Lucy hets anytime soon. Maybe in like 20 years us working slobs can afford one. Until then it is Texas ratsnakes for us lucy fans. Derek
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Derek Roberts
Sonoran Reptile
sonoranreptile@earthlink.net

Forget the Hummer. I'd invest in real estate and turn some quick profits. Building a nice net worth and for the price of the actual animal to drop to a realistic price, which very well could be $20,000 each.

Where you could invest $75K and get back $400K within 2 years. Unless its money-laundering or drugs, NO market compares to the returns you get on the snake biz.

But 75K for hets? I'm not seeing it. But then again, that is what they are worth to THAT guy. Meaning, maybe he's priced them out of the range so that NOBODY will buy them. If I was producing Lucies, I'd wait until I had like 20 of the things before I let other people start to regularly produce them. That project could set you for LIFE if you do it properly.
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Casinos.

But seriously. Given equal knowledge and work you could turn close to that amount in real estate. At least here in California. And as a plus, everyone needs a house but not everyone needs a snake. It might not turn as large of a profit, but I feel there's more long-term security in the market. I honestly don't know, how many ground-shaking morphs have come out with such a bang?

And that's kind of what I'm thinking. I could honestly see $70k for a Lucy, but for hets? I see what you're saying about keeping them, too. But it's going to be at least two years before anyone you sell to can produce any. Which is plenty of time to make $400k. After that point, you'll still be making a tidy sum and should still have the best available. I think, anyway.

But seriously. Given equal knowledge and work you could turn close to that amount in real estate. At least here in California. And as a plus, everyone needs a house but not everyone needs a snake. It might not turn as large of a profit, but I feel there's more long-term security in the market

And what is the start-up capital to buy and resell houses in California? Ha ha. Like $300,000? And are you going to see 500% return? Are you going to tell me that you can buy a house for $300,000 and sell it for $1.5 million in 2 years? Not likely. Buy a pair of het Pieds for 3,000. Breed them and get 6 eggs, with 2 Pieds that sell for $12,000 a piece. That's $24,000 on a $3,000 investment. 800% return. Now, tell me what other industry other than drugs or money laundering can you do that with?
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Thought this might help ...

"Over the past 3 calendar years, private real estate has generated average annualized returns of 8.73 percent, according to the National Council of Real Estate Investment Fiduciaries..."

"Over the next 15 years, private core real estate should earn about 7 percent a year net of management fees, predicts consulting firm Frank Russell & Co"

These quotes are from an August article on CFO.com called "Casting for Returns" by Randy Myers.

Hope this helps.

-adam

And what is the start-up capital to buy and resell houses in California? Ha ha. Like $300,000? And are you going to see 500% return? Are you going to tell me that you can buy a house for $300,000 and sell it for $1.5 million in 2 years? Not likely.
Don't know that for a fact

Buy a pair of het Pieds for 3,000. Breed them and get 6 eggs,
my example: Bought 2 pair $25,000.00 1 pair laid 4 eggs had 3 pieds. other pair no eggs. Oh and they never bred in three years bred in 4 years. Second year (2002) One pair produced 5 eggs two pieds. The other gave me 3 eggs no pieds. Third year (2003) Pair number one 0 eggs. Pair number 2 4 slugs. 0 pieds.

with 2 Pieds that sell for $12,000 a piece. That's $24,000 on a $3,000 investment. 800% return. Now, tell me what other industry other than drugs or money laundering can you do that with?

Forgot one thing you do not know what the price of pieds will be in the year 2007 (if you bought your hets in 2004) and You might not get those pair of pieds in a 6 egg clutch. The other thing you forgot to mention is that once you produce your first pied would you really sell them? I kept my animals I enjoy looking at them each time I clean their cages. I hope that this year I might get 4-9 pieds. Then and only then will I see profit on my investment. But $20,000.00-$45,000.00 ain't bad @ $5,000.00 each......Nice income for retirement each year...lol

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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

Not bad. Theory is great, but nothing beats a practicle example.

Also know a guy who bred het x het axanthics had I believe seven eggs. No axanthics. All 66% hets....yep. Odds tell you you should have one maybe two. [25% of clutch]
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

Damn. Talk about bad luck.

Cheap housing. You buy a house that needs work for an extremely low price, which could be as low as $20k. Call in a few contractors for estimates on repairs, then do it yourself for under $10k. We'll say your total investment so far is $50k, just for schits and giggles, and that house is now worth about $80k giving you a $30k return. Do that just once a month, for 24 months, and you've made $720k profit. Leaving quite a bit of lattitude for price fluctuations. There's also rental properties that pay for themselves, with properly screened tenants. From here, you can start to make some real money. You also get to look like a great guy in the public eye, for cleaning up all the crack houses.

Sounds like a late night infomercial. Carelton Sheets? Is that you? ... LOL

Very entertaining.

-adam

More like Tom Vu!

And Dexter a return of $30K on a $50K investment is STILL only a 60% return, NO MATTER how many times you do it in a month, year, week, etc etc. Just because you do it 24 times, does not increase the PERCENTAGE of return. Then I could just say the same thign with my example and say do it 24 times, LOL! Find me something, other than drug trafficking or money laundering, where you can invest $20K and get back $80K within 2 years. NOT invest $20K, RE-invest $20K, then RE-invest that $40K, etc etc etc. Not the same thing.

Sorry guys, I've been a salesman, and a damn good one, for 10 years. If I had a dime for everytime I've heard "didn't I see you on late-night TV?", I'd already be rich.

I'll take a smaller return if it means larger dollar amounts. That 60% return is still going to net you a larger total income, all said and done. You tell me, where in Ball Python breeding are you going to have a realistic chance of actually becoming wealthy? Real Estate holds its value just a little bit better than snakes do. Get to the equivilent point of selling Lucies in Real Estate and you're selling million dollar properties. If we're just talking matching dollar amounts, "the things" would be a better investment. And like I said before, everyone needs a roof but not everyone needs a snake. I'm not denying the income potential, I'm just saying that there might be a greater chance to build wealth when you're not dealing with animals and a market that fluctuates to the degree of the Ball market. I mean, how many people have made millions in Ball Pythons? Now, how many people have made millions in Real Estate? How many Ball Python breeders drive a high-end Benz, BMW, Ferrari or Porsche? There seems to be a lot of people in Real Estate who drive very nice cars, live in very nice houses and happen to have very nice monthly incomes. Again, I'm not saying it can't go either way.

I have rental property in FL. This isn't some pipe dream I have to get rich, I have the property, so I'm not saying what COULD happen. Here is the reality of a single family dwelling. Your rent is just about going to cover your expenses. I pay a percentage to a firm for handling the property as I am unable to be close by. I pay for any and all maintenance needed, I pay the mortgage payments, the insurance, the taxes, etc. You can't count on buying and selling a house every month as a SINGLE closing can take a month or more AFTER the deal is made. These things just take time in most cases. If you buy a house for 20,000 grand it's probably in a neighborhood which has pretty set property values. That's to say if you put a mansion in a crack neighborhood, your not going to sell it for what it's "WORTH". You can do a lot better off multi-family dwellings like duplex, quadplex, apartments, etc. Donald Trump makes money in real estate and he's famous for it. If it's SO EASY, why would one guy become famous for it???? Because it's not THAT easy. I am not trying to make money off my FL. property, I am happy to have it pay for itself. Well, whatever, yeah you can make money with real estate, but it's not nearly as easy as your trying to make it out to be. It definitely requires more work than reptiles. Take it easy!

Paul

I didn't say it was easy, making legal money never is. Rental property is a hard way to way to make money, probably the hardest way in real estate. There are houses, in bad neighborhoods, here that sell for $90k and aren't freshly remodeled. There's actually a lot more to it, but since I actually paid for this information I'm not about to disclose all of it. Did you know that the owner of the 49ers is the largest land developer in California? Neither did I until one of my friends landed a contracting gig with him. Donald Trump is famous because of his achievements, down fall and putting himself in the public eye. I'll take a few million in real estate and save the fame for my music career. Just because you're not going to be as big as Bob Clark or Ralph Davis, does that mean that you can't use their methods to make any money?

Please ... I truely want to know something...Not all your little secrets that you paid your money for... just how are you ...you , not contractors, going to turn a 20K house into an 80K house in a month. I will say alright with 4-6 months per house but there is no way in H..l that any single person, or even a two or three man crew can renovate a dump into an nice livable, or more importantly a sellable house in a month. Todd

That was the lattitude on pricing part. This was all theory, just like Jeff's example. We saw from BallBoutique's reply that theory and practical application don't meet anywhere near the middle. I'd expect to sell a $20k dump for about $50k and make around $15k profit. That's also why I said "as low as" and figured a $30k investment on top of that. I'd leave professional level work to professionals. And I actually have several friends in construction who're more than willing to work for a fattie and a 12 pack. Practical, you'd be doing great to make even $200k of that $720k in two years.

HOW COME?

"How come?" What, are you three?

"How come" is because I sold my controlling share of the business I used to own three years ago and have been in debt since. It's the pits when your partner starts selling meth out of your back door and almost lands you in prison for it. He got two and a half years for nine ounces and I got stuck with the bad rep. So my fiancee and I made the decision to sell our share to her brother, who's a low-life scum anyway. My integrity meant more to me than the money. I don't plan on becoming rich from breeding either Rotts or Balls. Music is my passion and I'll be happy if I can work just a few months a year as a studio drummer and maybe land a dream gig. Real estate is how I plan on making my way, once I finally climb back out of this hole. Was that an honest enough answer for you?

the breeder was willing to guarantee that the snake wasn't sterile with a replacement guarantee (not likely, I know, but ...), then I would love to. I think the leucistic and patternless bp's are the prettiest because the emphasis then becomes the beauty of the snake itself, the scale pattern, the grace, and not just color and pattern. I also think the leucys are going to hold their value well for a long time, and it would be a worthwhile investment, as long as you didn't end up with an non-reproducing snake.

I could see hets going for around 25k, but 75k is way out of line. I think the novelty of the white snake is overblown, its not like there is only one of them out there. 2 types of Lucy`s,different variations of Ivory`s, and to a lesser extent snows.Some may sell at extreme prices initially, but i think its a very small market at that $$$$$. JUst my opinion. Mark

I agree.
The price for a pair of het pieds was $12,500. This is the day after they were proven. A male pied $25,000.00 and females $15,000.00. I believe there are more lucies now then their were pieds then. I might be wrong.
I also can't believe that stripe females are $20,000.00. But the way I look at it if they can get that price good. Too high for me.
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

I couldn't live knowing that a 75,000 dollar snake is totally and completely in my care. I would turn gray and get ulcers. Not worth it to me. Normals are great for me. Heck, I'm still waiting for the price of Clowns to come down, but haven't yet. I would still love one of those. But oh well. Life goes on.
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Pandora is my Ball Python
Nemo, Kishi, and Tangerine are my Bearded Dragons
Boingo is my Pixie Frog

One can’t really argue with a “yes” or a “no”

Not the same as “Is a het leucistic WORTH 75k?” That's when the war of words breaks out around here.

If you had it you would spend it. The project is dead end but i tell you what if i had it i would get into it just to say i have one to when i hatch one ya kno