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My herp vet recommended chunky wood, like repti bark, over wood shavings, like aspen. Your thoughts on this?

Rae
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Me, Beatrice, Theta and Nora. Who could have guessed?

I can see why he made that recommendation. A snake can't get "chunky" wood substrate stuck in between his gums and "lips." So, there's less chance of mouthrot with the larger substrate. However, if you feed in a seperate enclosure, on plastic or newspaper, you don't really need to worry about it.

heh.... well I like reptibark just because it looks more natural and whatnot but if you notice it almost smells like a piney type bark. The vet I go to says aspen or coconut shell. why I'm not sure. But my snakes seem to like the coconut shell better than both repti bark or aspen. I would take my vets advice only because she is very very knowlegeable in many different herps but also because she personally owns a few snakes heh.

First of all, get a new vet.

Never use Nature's Bark and ReptiBark. The most toxic part of fir and pine trees is the bark. Never use this. NEVER !!! I cannot be more firm about the toxicity of this product and its potential for killing snakes. Especially young ones.

Most breeders use aspen bedding if they don't use paper. It's the pulp of the tree with no bark and relatively neutral in odor and chemical content. The most digestible of the aspen products is the shredded aspen bedding. The smaller the better.

Don Soderberg
www.cornsnake.NET
South Mountain Reptiles

I'm just on my way out to get some new bedding and was considering getting the ZooMed Repti-bark or aspen instead of carefresh...Mostly just for a change of "atmosphere" from the CareFresh I've been using for a year now. I LOVE the carefresh, but it seems like lately the snakes are looking bored with their dull gray environment. (ok, so maybe just I am) But also it seems to get dragged into the water dishes more than aspen did.

I was actually going to go for the bark this time but thought I'd look on here first. Good Thing! I'd have died if I switched them all to bark and then read this! Guess I'll go for the aspen again...It does look "cleaner", and now I know from one the experts that it's better
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Dianne
AKA IcedGoddess
6.7 Cornsnakes
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So in addition to steering clear of cedar - we should not keep snakes on pine or fir either? Any other woods to stay away from?
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Most pine and fir products are acceptable. NOT the bark. If it's white pine or light colored fir shavings, I don't think that's so bad. A good rule of thumb is that if it's a wood product that has a strong smell, it's probably not wise to use with reptiles. Fresh aspen is an exception.

Any wood product that gets in the water bowl should be removed and change the water. This releases the oils and solvents from the wood. For adult snakes, this is not such a problem. For hatchlings/neonates, this could be an overdose of toxic chemicals.

.
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This is not a personal attack, but I just want to know why my vet would recommend this and you wouldn't. Are you also a vet? The reason I'm challenging this is because I see so many conflicting opinions on here and they are never questioned. I'm curious to know where you found evidence that Repti-Bark is so deadly. Again, I'm not doubting, I'm just trying to come to a reasonable conclusion.

Rae
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Me, Beatrice, Theta and Nora. Who could have guessed?

>>This is not a personal attack, but I just want to know why my vet would recommend this and you wouldn't. Are you also a vet? The reason I'm challenging this is because I see so many conflicting opinions on here and they are never questioned. I'm curious to know where you found evidence that Repti-Bark is so deadly. Again, I'm not doubting, I'm just trying to come to a reasonable conclusion.
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>>Rae
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Don is one of the largest corn snake breeders in the U.S. and has years of experience with corn snakes.
It is not very likely that your vet has anywhere near the experience Don has when it comes to corn snakes.
I have seen quite a few vets give improper information due to outdated and incorrect resources.
Your vet may be a good vet and a fairly knowledgeable vet but corn snakes or reptiles in general my not be his expertise. Nothing wrong with this but experience is the true teacher. If you were to choose which one's advise to follow I think you would be doing much better to listen to a true expert. If Don says not to use ReptiBark you can bet your butt I won't ever use it. Of course, I use aspen shavings anyway.
I do not know the exact numbers, hopefully Don can verify this, but he produces thousands of corn snakes every year and has done so for quite a while.
I just don't think your vet can attest to the same amount of experience.
This is not against you or your vet but an attempt to answer your question.
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Remember, my posts are MY opinion only.
Jimmy (draybar)

Well thank God I never went with Reptile Bark. I almost tried it once, but never got around to doing it. I've always used Aspen, very easy to clean, snakes like to burrow in it. Nice smell.
If Don says something is toxic, trust me, it's toxic. I might agree with you, and even have doubt myself, if this information were coming from just anybody, but like Draybar said, Don has experience with thousands of Cornsnakes. He is an expert. I had a blizzard corn that I thought I was going to lose at one time,(regurge problems), and Don's advice saved me from most likely having a dead snake.

Steve

heh, well, I was born a journalist. A girl has got to know where her information comes from. Like I said, I meant no offense. Course, I feel a little sheepish because Don has been an invaluable resource with my research project, but as a 19 year old red-headed EMT, I can't help but to challenge authority ;o)

Rae
Humbly Yours
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Me, Beatrice, Theta and Nora. Who could have guessed?

I too trust Don's advice, but would also be interested in any proof he has. Only so that I can refer others to it in the future.
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Nothing wrong with asking. People throw out the whole "pine is bad" comment all the time, and yet, years ago we had snakes for 15 years on pine with no problems. The facts are that pine does contain a toxic substance in the oils and sap mainly. If there is too much of that substance in the wood, for example fresh-cut wood or like Don said, from those areas in the tree where concentration is greatest, then there could be a problem in a cage with low ventilation - i.e. many rack systems used today.

Aspen is safer definitely in this regard. But, clean dry pine in a cage with ample ventilation (what is ample? well, more than a shoebox with some holes) may not be a killer. For me though, all it takes is one breeder to report problems, and I figure to listen.

A vet here in my town has a bearded dragon,a jacksons cham,and aquatic turtles all in the same 100 gallon aquirium.This genius charges 50 bucks for an (EXOTICS) visit.They only get 4 credit hours in vet school to boot.Today i have a 9:30 appt. with the new reptile vet in town.It will be interesting to say the least.Im betting the 37 dollars i spend on the visit will be worth the look on her face when i tell her what i need and want done.If im wrong,and she knows her Sh@#, i will have saved myself a 440 mile roundtrip to the only reptile vet in Ill that is worth a crap.Im gonna roll the dice on this one.Finding a good reptile vet is worth whatever they charge you in my book.In the meantime listen to Don he wont steer you wrong...Paul..

You can do an online search regarding wood shavings/chips and you will find a ton of information. Many studies have been performed regarding small mammals such as rodents and there are arguements on both sides. Most people believe that the oils in wood like pine, fir and cedar can cause skin, liver and respitory problems in animals. The way I see it, snakes have no fur to protect them and they only have one lung which would lead me to believe that they are more likely to develop a problem.
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Anna

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Don,
I am not sure how long you have kept herps bout I have never had any serious problems with ReptiBark or NaturesBark and I've kept snakes in general for almost 9 yrs, mostly colubrids I've kept and started to get into the boids bout 4 yrs ago. Anyway I disagree with your comment bout these two products as from my own personal experiance never had any real problems. The only problem I've encountered was them accidently picking up their subtrate when striking at their prey pre-killed food. And this can happan with any subtrate not just bark.
Those are my .02 unless you can provide substancial, concrete facts about these two products other than your personal opinion from maybe past experiances or possiable word-of-mouth. Anyway, I just wanted to clear the air bout my opinions and if you can provide a link to an article backing up your statement written by a vet, herpotogist or by the companies themselves I would very much like to read them as information is key to a new beginning.

Not to offend Don or anybody here, I live in Georgia so I don't do corns (which sucks).

I am going to agree with the comment that you shouldnt use repti-bark. Not because I am going to agree with Don, because in all honesty, I have never heard of him before. (Sorry Don, but anybody asks me about corns and I direct them to Bill Love or Rich (who know who I mean)) I have seen one snake die because of repti-bark. A customer of mine was using repti bark for his baby corn. The corn swallowed some of it and hence died because it obstucted his intestine. Now this can happen with ANY substrate but because repti bark is so big, it can cause problems in animals.

Now from my personal experience with the stuff......I get splinters everytime I reach into a bag of Nature's Bark. Hmmmmm. think about that one. I have also noticed that Repti bark, doesn't hold humidity. Everything seems to dry right out on that stuff. I have a friend that swears by the stuff but I personally will never have a bag in my house. I use cyprus mulch for all my animals that require humidity. I also use aspen but I hate the way that my snakes pile it into the darn water bowl.

Ok so here are a few comments from somebody who doesn't know Don but also hates Repti-bark.