Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I shared this with Doug but as I was working with a group of Atheris today (African Bush Vipers including A. squamiger, A. ceratophora, A. desaixi), I couldn't help but think how breeding indigos has prepared me for the many other challenges I have been looking forward to in the herpetological field. Getting baby "squams" to feed isn't much different than working with my baby couperi...both require unnerving and unwavering patience. They force you to be creative, flexible, willing to try anything but at all times, calm and under control. If I hadn't had the experience I had in rearing baby indigos, I don't know if I would have been as effective in working with some of the more delicate species (such as the venomous we are working with). Anyway, I'm laid up after having surgery so I think I am just going a little nutso...sorry for this post that really has nothing to do with anything!

Also, if anyone is in the Chicago area on Sunday, March 14 we are hosting the fourth annual Reptile Rampage from 10am to 4pm at the Lake Forest Recreation Center, Lake Forest, IL. Many folks from the Chicago and St. Louis Herp Societies will be showing off their prized "pets" including Bubba the alligator and a very impressive collection of elapids and other hots...plus, much much more. The admission is $5 and ALL proceeds will be going towards herp conservation (especially COUPERI)...this is an education only event; NO LIVE SALES.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
City of Lake Forest Parks & Recreation (IL)

Indigos have taught me one very important thing about husbandry:

Let the animals themselves tell you what they need.

You need sort out details of their life history, what they are suited for, what niche they have evolved to fill.

Then it snowballs in your mind into all the little things in their specialzed world that makes them successful when they do have the proper habitat.

Make them "feel" like conditions are "normal" and good things will happen in captivity. These are highly specialzed animals. Kind of like a tropical snake managing to survive in the US, as far north as Georgia!

Once you start trying to think in those terms, you can't stop, and you start doing it with other herps as well.

I like to think this is the future of captive reptile keeping...getting away from the rubbermaid, keeping fewer animals, and providing an environment as similar as possible to their ideal wild element.

I for one find it much more interesting to keep a few animals this way than 100's in a shoebox rack.

I especially liked what you said about a fewer animals kept in quality/roomy housing, instead of hundreds stuffed in sweaterboxes. I used to keep about 20 - 30 animals (in aquaruims with screen lock tops) and it ceased to feel like a hobby/interest, was more like a job that I PAID to keep (not to mention cleaning all the snake crud).
I decided to just keep two or three of the animals I was REALLY interested in keeping. I'm at two now, waiting - looking for # 3 and that's plenty. I actually have time to really enjoy the animals this way.

Thane
Thanes Place

Great post Dean. Drymarchon ARE basically Tropical snakes, and after keeping/breeding these wonderfull serpents for so many years, I have come to the same conclusion that you have, namely that we have to provide the habitat that stimulates and mimics THEIR enviornment. I have had much better results from keeping them in this manner than trying to"Slidebox" them.
I REALLY liked the analogy that Dean when he pointed out that he would rather have a few snakes kept in a SOMEWHAT more natural enviornment than 100's in slideboxes. I share this belief, and have the BEST results when I had less snakes maintained according to THEIR specific Biom-Needs.(Read natural habitat, temps, size of enclosure etc)
Not to say that slideboxes and mass production is a bad thing, in my mind it isnt, but I think with some species we have so much trouble unlocking the secrets to their reproduction because WE (I) have tended to treat them as a "One size fits all application" Which they arent. Bravo Dean!

*Cheers*

Fred Albury

I just added 2 new adult female Easterns to my collection, 1 is in a 120 gallon tank, the other in a 75..... the adult male I had all along is in a 90 gallon.. yeah it's taking up more space in my snake room...... but their well worth it. I cannot see stuffing these guys into a sweaterbox or any other 'glorified tupperware' & expecting them to thrive.

They seem so intent on being 'informed' as to what your doing mine watch me as I putter around the rec room. I really believe a heathly stimulated mind will reflect a heathy body especially when it's time to breed. I know I ditched a couple ratsnake projects to make way for the 2 new girls I got. Most guys I hear complaining about how messy Drymarchon are usually have a collection of in excess of 200 other snakes so the added cleaning would be a pain.

Mind you having said that I just fed my Indigos some smelt so I'LL be the one cuss'n about the smell in a few days when it's gonna be like cleaning up after 8 lb. Garter snakes once the fish makes it's way through their systems.

Hope everyone has good luck in this up & coming breeding season.

Dean

i totally agree, dean. i feel its better, not to mention more fun to have the individual snakes you want, as opposed to a room full of rubbermaid boxes. i myself enjoy the eastern and florida kings, northern and black pines, and hopefully one day...a dry.

i like to watch my snakes do what they do. i dont have any breeding plans. i am enjoying my animals. i have many, many snapping turtles i keep and breed and adopt in/out. so, my snakes are my pure enjoyment pets. i love em.