Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been thinking a lot lately whether there is a way to 100% identify the difference between a het and a homo form of a dominate morph. The reason I have been thinking about this is for two reasons. First, I will use a spider as an example but surely a proven homo form of the spider would be worth quite a bit more than the het version of it. And secondly, if you could identify a homo form of the spider and breed it to a superpastel then you have just created an entire clutch of bumblebees. Does anyone know if any scientists or researchers are getting close to developing any tests for the genetics. Just some thoughts, Todd

I don't know of anyone working on it. I am working in a molecular lab, and I think there would be ways to identify the genes affecting a particular trait such as the spider phenotype, but it would take time and money, and some really expensive equipment. I am helping with an experiment where we are trying to identify the genes that affect melanism in Daphnia (water fleas), and I am sure if we can do that then we could do similar work with the spider phenotype, or others like it. Time will tell, I am sure eventually someone will invest the time and money into it, and they will make TONS of money off it. It is fun to think about, that's for sure.

Ben

if could be done, but there would have to be the monies available to research this. Just like any other genetic research that goes on in humans or monkeys, etc.
All you would have to do is lobby the US Gov. to alocate so much a year AND have the doctors that are capable and interested in doing such. The only other chance would be to find the doctors to do the research for free, just for the enjoyment of the research.
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@cox.net

Hello,

We were recently contacted by someone on the west coast, a doctorate student I believe, that is going to be working on this exact subject for a thesis. According to that person, they have all the necessary tools and facilities to work on something like this.

The reason that we were contacted (along with several others I'm sure) is... for the research they need skin samples of Homozygous and Heterozygous specimens for some sort of genetic comparison. We are interested in helping out because I find this stuff fascinating and would like to see someone come up with a technique like this.

Basically... the way I understood it was that IF the research works and can yield accurate results, this would become a business for the person who did the research.

I think it would be pretty cool, however, how would this adversely affect OUR MARKET?!? Think about it... no more Possible Hets! No more "discounted" methods of getting into expensive recessive morphs! You either hack up the dough for 100% Hets or a Homozygous or you can't get in on the project. Personally I LOVE Poss Hets! I am always saving and buying Poss Hets of all kinds of genes... you just can't beat them in the price department!

This one could turn out to be pretty controversial, a rarity for our Ball Python World

Thanks for reading...
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Sean Bradley
Owner : EbN
www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

On a side note... I noticed that the original question was about Dominant vs. Co-Dominant and how to tell the Hets from Homos. This would work the same with recessive genes (which I think would be a more demanding market for this type of testing.)

If asked to participate, we will be submitting samples from all projects, Dominant & Co-Dominant included...

Thanks

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Sean Bradley
Owner : EbN
www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, if any of you are asked to submit samples for something like this be very careful that they are labeled as accurately as possible (i.e. proven het, unproven 100% het, etc.). I know Sean would do an excellent job and all the het samples would be hets etc. but I heard from someone else who submitted samples for something like this that they "mixed a few of them up to see if he knows what he is doing". Maybe after a test if developed there might be a call for such blind samples to test the accuracy but at this stage this would be a terrible sabotage to finding the gene in the first place and waste the time and money we are darn lucky to get allocated to this kind of research in the first place.

Off soap box ...

It would be interesting to see if this works out. I have a few possible hets myself...It would be interesting to see if I got skunked or struck it big before they reach breeding size...

Mark

>>Hello,
>>
>>We were recently contacted by someone on the west coast, a doctorate student I believe, that is going to be working on this exact subject for a thesis. According to that person, they have all the necessary tools and facilities to work on something like this.
>>
>>The reason that we were contacted (along with several others I'm sure) is... for the research they need skin samples of Homozygous and Heterozygous specimens for some sort of genetic comparison. We are interested in helping out because I find this stuff fascinating and would like to see someone come up with a technique like this.
>>
>>Basically... the way I understood it was that IF the research works and can yield accurate results, this would become a business for the person who did the research.
>>
>>I think it would be pretty cool, however, how would this adversely affect OUR MARKET?!? Think about it... no more Possible Hets! No more "discounted" methods of getting into expensive recessive morphs! You either hack up the dough for 100% Hets or a Homozygous or you can't get in on the project. Personally I LOVE Poss Hets! I am always saving and buying Poss Hets of all kinds of genes... you just can't beat them in the price department!
>>
>>This one could turn out to be pretty controversial, a rarity for our Ball Python World
>>
>>Thanks for reading...
>>-----
>>Sean Bradley
>>Owner : EbN
>> www.ExoticsByNature.com
>> www.BallPythonMorphs.com
>> www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

It was a sample of actual skin, one scale. This would not be THAT invasive for research such as this.

Man if it were shed skins... I'd be sending a BIG box of them

LATER!
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Sean Bradley
Owner : EbN
www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornSnakeMorphs.com

I sent sheds to a person to do this. Each shed was marked and placed in a baggie. Never heard from him since. You only need a shed for genetics. At least this is what I have been told. I talked to a biology teacher and he said it would be a lot of work.
It would help the seller of possible hets. Just like your 50% het for stripes. Instead of $xxx.xx you could get $xxxx.xx for them. Hope we can get this done. Great to get some of the scammers out of our business.
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
The home of the singing snakes!

I also really like and have dabbled in the possible het market. However, I still think the test would on the whole be more of a good thing than a bad one.

If a cheap and accurate test for a particular recessive morphs' heterozygous state where available I think it would pretty much turn that recessive morph into the co-dominant marketing mode. Sure there would be no more extremely cheap possible hets but there also would be more confidence in the market as some are currently very skeptical of possible hets anyway (normals sold as possible hets, sporadic het sings used to weed out the most likely hets before you pick, etc.). The budget shopper would still be taken care of eventually because the whole depreciation cycle of the morph would be sped up as well as the potential for quick return. People would buy het males and breed them to more normal females than without the test because they can now know which are hets and sell those half for more than they could probably have sold the entire clutch of 50% hets.

Basically I think a test of recessive heterozygous would allow quicker returns which would increase production and hence drive a morph to be affordable to the mass quicker. It does certainly throw a few wrinkles in such as test authentication and the importants of quick successful breeding under faster depreciation.