Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Has anyone ever heard of someone having a reaction to a BP bite? I sold a baby (4 months old) BP to a woman and her son two weeks ago. The woman called today and said her son was bitten last night by the snake and immediately his arm swelled up and red streaks ran up the arm and there were hives all over his arm. The bite did NOT bleed she said. She had to take him to the ER and they called poison control to see what to do. They gave him a shot of Benadryl and he hyperventilated.

Overreaction?

I was bitten by a tiny little spider last summer and it tingled for about 10 minutes before it swelled up, got red and white blotches and ran up my arm. I knew it wasn't a brown recluse or a black widow so I just waited for the swelling to go down.

I think they are wacko and I don't believe it was from the snake bite.

I have a friend who was bitten by a cottnmouth on the finger and even that didn't swell for almost 30 minutes.

I tried to explain to the woman that it wasn't possible for this reaction to be from the snake but she wouldn't listen.

I think all of this reaction was in his head because of fear of snakes. He said there is only one teeny tiny puncture of one tooth and you can't even see it now, only 12 hours later.

Karen

As we all know, BPs are nonvenomous. . . but almost everyone I tell that I own snakes asks if they (the BPs) are "poisonous" or not. It just goes to show you how ignorant people are about snakes. Maybe this mother is too? I would almost give the benefit of the doubt and say perhaps this kid is allergic to something in BP saliva, but if they can't even see the bite? It has to be something else! Even my corn snakes leave more than one mark on me when they bite! And even then it's barely there, but you can see the teeth marks. I think thew mother is probably blaming what she thinks is obvious, (due to the average person's fear of snakes) but what in reality is very very, very unlikely.

If I were you I would tell the woman that ball pythons are non-venomous on all levels and that she should look for other causes for the boy's allergic reaction. If the doctor had any sense, he would've told her that already! The only nonven snakes I have heard of causing a reaction in someone are hognoses and garters which are both colubrids. There's venomous colubrids out there, so perhaps some have trace amounts of harmful substances in their saliva? I've never heard of any python species being venomous, however, however mild that "venom." In any case, I believe this is not your problem! this woman should have done the research before buying the snake. If she had she would have known that there is little to no way that a ball bite would cause a reaction. good luck.

I remember seeing a video years ago from a big boa breeder who claimed to be allergic to boa saliva after years of being bitten by them. If I remember right he would just puff up a little at the bite site. I would suspect that the vast majority of people would have no such problem but apparently out of a large enough sample size anything is possible.

By the way, hognose saliva is apparently actually approaching a mild venom. I remember reading an article about it suggesting that all snakes are at least very very mildly venomous when you consider their saliva.

The woman is coming today and I'm giving her money back for the snake. She told me she knew it wasn't venomous.
I have never NOT bled when bitten by a snake. She said the kid didn't bleed.
I think the reaction was from them overreacting when it bit him or struck at him as I'm beginning to think. I hope she brings the kid w/her cuz I wan to see this bite.

I searched the net trying to find if people can be allergic to BP saliva and could find nothing. The mother said there were all kinds of sites on the net saying people are allergic to snakes. I'm going to ask her for some site names cuz I don't believe it.

Karen

Could have been something in the snakes bite~ I know mammals harbour all kinds of nasties in their saliva, and depending on what the snake ate last, the health of that meal, the health of the snake~ there could be any number of things in the saliva.

It could also have something to do with the boys immune system and how his body reacted to whatever is in the saliva. If I am bitten by a cat I have a very similair reaction to what is described. Benadryl takes care of it though. (If I don't take the benadryl within about 5 min I will swell up till the skin looks like it will break under the pressure) Most people do not react that way to cat saliva. My youngest son does not~ but if he is bitten by a moskito he swells up pretty good (A bite on the face almost always swells his eyes shut) Benadryl again solves the problem.

It could be anynumber of things. I think if I were you I would be careful about not telling the woman she is "Wrong"........she is upset and aggitated about her son. I think you should keep that particular opinion to yourself, explain how this is so rare you have never even heard of it, but the Human body is complex and there is any number of reasons her son may have had an unheard of reaction.
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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
Check out my website at:
The Red Dragons Den

I definitely agree with Cheryl's advice. Do NOT try to prove your right. His mom's very upset and doesn't want to hear any scientific explanation or justification on your part. I would just say I'm so sorry for your son's experience with the ball python and give her the money back. Hopefully she will say something like she understands it's not a poisonous snake and that her son obviously has allergies to other things. Just leave it at that. I'm not saying you need to apologize for anything.

I dont think you should apologize for anything either. I would just be glad you are getting the snake back before the idiot called poison control or something. Luckily the snake will be leaving this ignorant family tomorow.

The reasons that mammals have so much bacteria in their mouths is due to the fact that they chew up their food and tear chunks of it and stuff. Bits and pieces get stuck in the teeth and in their gums and this creates a perfect atmosphere for bacteria to live in. Snakes do not do this and therefore have pretty clean bites. I am not saying it is impossible but highly improbable. Todd

Most colubrids are slightly toxic on some level (NA rats and kings excepted, hogs and garters included). No boa or python is toxic in the least. I guess it's possible for anything to cause a reaction, though, but it seems unlikely to me too.
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"The serpent crams itself with animal life that is often warm and vibrant, to prolong an existence in which we detect no joy and no emotion. It reveals the depth to which evolution can sink when it takes the downward path and strips animals to the irreducible minimum able to perpetuate a predatory life in its naked horror."
Alexander Skutch

I am almost 100% sure that hognose snakes are now classified as rear-fanged venomous colubrids though there venom is extremely weak. Mainly just enough for their prey(toads). As far as pythons are concerned I have never heard of any person having any type of reaction from their bites. I agree it is just a mother that didn't do any research and instead of looking for the true cause of the problem is just to quick to blame the snake. Todd

that article but whoever did the study was being quite liberal in handing out the mildly vemomous title to almost all colubrids. If you or I are bitten by a human and dont clean the area it can become infected and swell slightly. I figure this is similiar to colubrid bites so humans may be classified as mildly venomous LOL.
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Occupants not paying rent:
7 balls
2 corns(normal, candy cane)
1 pueblan milk
1 everglades rat
1 cal. king
1 gray band king
1 w. hognose
1 bearded dragon
2 leopard geckos
2 fish, 1 snail
1 pac man frog
1 rat
5 cats

It is very possible that the kid is allergic to the proteins in ball python saliva, but I don't think that you should be held responsible. If I were you, I would do all I could to help them come to terms with this, and buy back the ball python if need be. This would be to protect yourself and keep a good reputation.
Justin J

I agree with Justin's point. Though ball pythons are not venomous, it is possible the salyva can cause an allergic reaction. Though in the initial post, it was mentioned the kid hyperventilated after being given benadryl(?), which makes me wonder if this kid is allergic to alot of things. The only real way to know for certain if the snake is the cause of the sudden swellen, is to have a doctor take a sample of the ball python's spit and do an allergy test on it with the boy.

It may not even be the snake as well, could easily have been a mouse the boy was feeding it, the substrate, or something else entirely.

I just have a few questions...1 How old is this child? 2. If he is young enough to need his mother in this situation then what was he doing handling the snake unsupervised? 3. What was the trigger for the snake to bite,(feeding, fear, etc....etc...)?4. How long did they have this snake for? Did they not give it ample time to acclimate before handling it?5. Do breeders need to start to have waiver of liability forms for snakes they sell? Are you responsible for everything we and the snakes do after the sale? Are you responsible for the inexperience, and lack of research on the care of these, animals? If so then you really need to tkae a harder look at whom you sell to, because you may expect more calls... But personally I feel that you should not suffer for the ignorance of others. maybe offer half refund or some other deal so you do not take the full hit of this. well these are my thoughts on that. Good Luck!!
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I am a true herper at heart
1.0 ball python(normal)Maximus
0.1 golden retriever Amber
0.1 dalmation/lab mix nikita
0.2 bettas

It's not like offering a refund is "taking a hit." They'll get the snake back and can sell it to someone else. They don't have to lose any money on the deal at all.

Personally, I don't see this as much of a big deal at all. There'll always be people out there in the world who buy things, then have weird reactions (whether real or imagined) to what they've bought and change their minds. Does it really matter what the boy actually reacted to?

I think sometimes in our desire to defend our love of snakes, we go overboard trying to prove we're right in any anti-snake argument, no matter how frivolous and fruitless it might be.

Just my .02 on the matter...
Judy
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1.0 red cape gopher (Caesar)

The boy looked to be about 12 or 13. They had the snake for 2 weeks w/o problem. When they bought it, he begged his mom over and over to buy it for him. She didn't want it in her house.

I really don't think the snake actually bit him. I looked at his arm where he said it bit him and the skin is not broken. He said he did not bleed. I don't know about anyone else but when I'm bitten, even by a small snake, I bleed. He said something weird though. He said when the snake bit him there was saliva all over his arm and dripping off it. I don't get that part. The kid apologized to me over and over. I don't know why. His mom kept telling him to shut up.

I really think what happened was she didn't want the snake and made this whole story up to get us to take it back.

KarenH

I agree with you on that, it just does not seem too acceptable by the description that was given. While I have never personally been bitten by my bp I have seen alot of snakes bite on tv and documentaries.Along with watching mine feed I have come to the consensus ( and I could be wrong) That when snakes, especially constrictors, bite they don't just nip ,but crank down with all their force. As sharp as their teeth are and what they are designed for I would imagine some blood and at least a small mark.Secondly Ball pythons don't have alot of saliva as many snakes are depicted with in movies.I have never seen saliva until my snake starts to feed and i would imagine that that is purely for lubrication to help the food down.How old is this snake?Is it a normal CB? Where are you located,and what is your price?(If I am permitted to ask these questions. If not then disregard in forum and contact me by email.)
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I am a true herper at heart
1.0 ball python(normal)Maximus
0.1 golden retriever Amber
0.1 dalmation/lab mix nikita
0.2 bettas

I've been bitten by tons of different snakes, mostly anacondas, boas, burmese and some kingsnakes. All bled a little, nothing serious.

The ball is a CB baby bought from Mark and Kim Bell. It's about 4 months old.
I work at a pet store in Farmington, MO. The baby balls are $49.

Karen

He had a reaction to whatever he cleaned his hands with before /o after being bit
if you get bit by a spider, or punctured by a stick (you know those sneeaky Sticks) you are a lot more likely to have a reaction to the chemicals from your OWN SKIN than anything else

My daughter got Cellulitis (and infection of the lower layer of skin) from stepping on a stick
My other Daughter got it from a spider bite
Both times it was a simple Pathogen from the skin, not the venom of the spider or the stick (yes a little tongue in cheek, but you get the idea)
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Elizabeth (ecb)

Make this world a better and more beautiful place that You have been in it
*Edward W Bok*

.....over 1000 bites from snakes probably here....some young,old,fat,hungry,just fed,dirty mouths maybe(just ate a wet animal)......all kinds of bites......

gerbil,hamsters of 3 or 4 types,mice,rats.....rabbits,,,,rabbit claws.....cat claws.....

wire cages...rusty and dirty with mouse crap.....

all the cuts you can imagine.......

never had a problem at all.......especially with the snake bites.they have clean mouths........

......*((only thing I ever had trouble with was really deep and multiple rabbit claw marks.....on stomach area....they got red and itched for days..that's it..but who wouldn't itch with rabbit crap under the skin......))

she/he/they are nuts...........and afraid........

......tell them to sleep with lights on.......and sell you snake for a buck........

JY

Do you have a nice house? Lots of assets? Did the woman come over to your place to pick up the snake? The "instant" red streaks up the arm/blood poisoning are a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

-Joan

Well the mom brought the boy in with the snake. For some reason the snake's mouth was completely full of aspen shavings and the container they had it in was bare. I don't know what they did to it but I told them that what happened was no reason to abuse the snake.

I asked the boy where he was bitten. He pointed to the inside of his forearm near the elbow. He said he did NOT bleed. There were no wounds at all. He said when the snake bit him there was saliva running the length of his arm and dripping off his arm. This is what he said.

After I cleaned the stuff out of the snake's mouth and it appears fine.

The kid was very, very apologetic to me??? I'm sorry over and over. I gave his mom her money back.
I think the kid did something else or it never happened. I don't know what but it is very fishy. I mean after I've been bitten there are small punctures in the shape of the snakes top teeth, bottom teeth or both. But he had NOTHING.

I think what really happened was that the mom didn't like the snake and made this all up to get us to refund her money and the kid was sorry. When she bought it, the boy begged and begged her to buy it. Mom didn't want anything to do with it. They had it for about 2 weeks.

I forgot, I work at a mom & pop reptile pet shop.

Thanks everyone for the input.

KarenH