Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I really don't like saying who is "better".

That¡¦s making these animals sound like our playthings. They are not cars or stereos. Neither is ¡§better¡¨. They are both awesome animals. Indigos, being sub from a genus that originated in the tropics, have a more limited habitat.

But they are both kings in the domain they rule.

But as far as putting them head to head¡Kyou can cry and whine as much as you want, the fact is indigos are much much MUCH more powerful animals. I see one common denominator in the people who believe kings are more powerful:

THEY HAVE NEVER OWNED AN ADULT INDIGO

Those who have owned both state that the indigos are much more powerful, hands down.

And as far as the top 10 list concerning owning these animals¡KI¡¦m not going there, but¡Klet¡¦s say the comparison is like a bunch of Volkswagen people making reasons what VOW bugs are better than Ferraris

Sure¡KVW bugs are cool, and affordable, and get better gas mileage, and come in many more colors.
They are less maintenance and probably have a better warranty too. Much more practical.

But, come on, guys¡Ka VW is a VW and a Ferrari is a FERRARI.
And¡Kyou¡¦d all trade in your VW¡¦s for a Ferrari if the chance came along (and if your wives let you)

Hahahahaha

All in fun guys.

ļ

Tied to cut and paste from MS word and it came out all screwy.

LOL just kidding Dean but you got re-write that man I cant decipher 20% of the words. As far as the car comparison I think King owners would be the only ones who could afford the payments on a Ferrari after you guys buy your mouse/rat groceries for the month you would be lucky to make scooter payments LOL.

Keith
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I'm not even going to admit what I spend every month from rodentpro...and how many pastic gloves and paper towels I go through.

Guys,

Keith illustrates an excellent point here. FEEDING Eastern Indigos AINT CHEAP. By the time you get done feeding a colection of them, you not only cant afford Ferrari or scooter payments, you cant afford your cable bill!! lol

But..its worth it

*grins*

Fred Albury

Keith, I sure hope you are not making fun of grown men who ride scooters. That's a good way to get on the fighting side of me. lol Only a real man can ride a scooter when it's ten below and windy on the prairie. I get lots of heckling in the summer but just a lot of pity smiles in the winter. lol
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Martin Whalin

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld
My Email

You should put some ski's on that thing in the winter !

Keith
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I'm working on the prototype. I've already got a name. "The Snow Skeeter"
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Martin Whalin

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld
My Email

well dean i have owned indigos w/c adults,babies,and subs all w/c,i allways released them,as they are protected.i was raised in san antonio and used to hunt them in s.tx allot as a youngster,i did see a lg.indigo 5ft eating a 4ft.l.g. splendida in the field once,but then once i saw a 4ft l.g.splendida eating a 3ft very close to smae size indigo,so?what? and yes indigos are powerfull snakes great snakes i love'um but they are NOT kingsnakes which are the topdog in n.american snakes.pound for pound the king can/will take any indigo out!.and really if ya want compare them to cars i'd say the kingsnake is more like a hummer w/the indigo being what you said?a ferrari?or a vw,,,,,,, all in fun,,,,,,thomas

This is always a fun one! The ultimate question is easy to answer: Indigos are mac daddy in North America when it comes to snakes!

I agree that Indigos are the top dog when it comes to North American snakes. An 8' Indigo is a total beast and no honest kingsnake lover can deny that even a 84" Eastern King would fall to an 8' Indigo - just too much size and strength (especially the jaws). I've seen and held at least 5 different 7' Eastern Indigos, including the monsters at Treasure Coast Hospital in Hobe Sound, FL (near Jonathan Dickinson SP) and I've personally never seen in person or in picture any Eastern of Florida King that could kill these snakes.

BUT ounce for ounce or pound for pound I'd put my money on an Eastern/Florida King vs. an Indigo of the same size 9 out of 10 times...why? Because at the same weight and size an Indigo will not overpower a similarly sized constrictor that's a specialized, very powerful snake killer itself - that's as straight forward as saying a large 8'+ Indigo will kill and eat a 7' Eastern 9 out of 10 times. Remember Kings dispacth with all the snakes that Indigos eat too, sometimes bigger than they are, and like Indigos will eat just about anything they can catch and swallow! Pine snakes and other NA contrictors will fall prey to the largest, skilled, hungry Eastern Kingsnake.

If anybody - and you can put this on the Dry site too (!) - thinks differently then they've never owned/handled a 6.5' plus, 6.5 pound Eastern or Florida Kingsnake. If you don't beleive what I'm saying then try this: take a 4-5' Indigo and 4-5' Eastern King of the same weight for example and put them together on an empty stomach - assuming both are healthy - and see what happens.

Kings are tough, tough snakes like Indigos and are second only to them...but evenly matched in weight and basic length I'd go with a kingsnake just about every time. I've asked quite a few competent, long-time pro who raise and have kept Indigos/Kings/Pines/Mussurana, etc. and I would guess they would agree with me on this one.

But I'd never put my 6' Eastern in the same cage with a 6' plus Indigo that's got some girth on it - that's almost certain death for the Eastern, IMO at least!

-John

I've had and held many big kings. I had a 6'plus florida as my first "real" snake when I was about 8, and I swear the thing almost knocked me out from squeezing my neck one day (or at least that's how I remember it now at 35!)

A king of the same size and weight might have the advantage. But that comparison makes no sense. Like someone else said, an adult ringneck at 24" may well kill a 24" kingsnake, but what kind of comparison is that?

A 150 lb, 30 year old man could look at a 300 lb, 30 year old man and get all bad and say I'll kick your 150 lb. son's butt! What kind of threat would that be? Sure, he probably could.

Indigos are bigger snakes and the fair comparison would be an average or large adult king vs. an average or large adult indigo

...and every one of you knows what the outcome would be:
Nice shiny scales in the indigo poop.

Do me a favor, if any of you decide to try this experiment, PLEASE make sure you worm the kingsnake first, it would be a real shame to give an indigo parasites over such a thing.

I have owned Indigos and Kings for as long as I can remember. I have a 6.5' chain king that I have had for over 20 years along with six other subspecies who is one of the largest kings I have ever seen. In their own right, they are indeed the masters of their domain....one of the strongest constrictors in the world for their size. But Hilson, come on now, have you owned an eastern indigo? I have and since I can compare both, well, there is just no comparison. The bone crushing strenth of an indigos jaws accompanied with their incredible speed and musculature, along with amazing cunningess far surpassing other native herps, allows them to subdue ANY animal their size, I will only say that an indigo is truly the master of the snake world here in the U.S. THere is obviously much ignorance on the subject but Dean, you and I know the truth. But I did enjoy Ken (or Kevin's) top 10 list....certainly brought a few chuckles into my day (in a good way). This is quite fun.....forums versus forums...hmmm, maybe a tv reality show in the making!....and I will make sure I bring my indigo!

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
City of Lake Forest Parks & Recreation (IL)

Alright Im going to take into consideration you are a Flatlander(LOL) and Im up here in "God's country" a.k.a. Wisconsin. That said no Ive never owned a large Indigo ( I do have a Yellowtail Cribo though) but Ive held a few and yes they are impressive. If you have a 6.5' Eastern King and dont feel he is impressive than maybe that specimen is not up to par on some of the big Easterns and Florida Kings Ive owned and seen.The whole strength of bite thing doesnt really hold that much weight w/ me either Ive seen Fox Snakes up here in Madison with tire tracks on their backs still getting around. Snakes can take alot of punishment unless another big CONSTRICTOR is delivering it. I said it below and Ill say it again if Dry's have such a efficient way of dispatching prey than why on earth are there so many snakes employing the constriction method out there ?

p.s. by the way the name is Keith not Kevin or Ken

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Sorry for not stating your name correctly....yes, my big eastern is one of our most impressive snakes; I truly admire this serpent and others who are ardent kingsnake afficianados tell me that this is one of the most impressive kings they have seen. But, they pale in comparison to a nice big couperi. Why would a snake like an eastern indigo need to constrict prey when they are so incredibly built to subdue prey through one punishing chomp of their jaws? To watch an indigo subdue a large prey item is very impressive....pure power. Keith, I really don't know what all the fuss is about. Both snakes are truly awesome and wonderful....but for me, the indigo is the creme de la creme of the serpent world and certainly the ferrari of the snake world here in the U.S. Just come to grips with it and move
on And btw, I, too, am a fellow Cheesehead as I lived there and most of my relatives live in the Madison area (so at least some native folks from the "high country" know better!).

I must admit Im originally from Michigan so Im not technically a cheesehead. Ive been here for 20 of my 33 years so I love the state just not its sports teams. I agree with they you are both impresssive snakes and on all other things we will simply have to agree to disagree.

Regards,

Keith
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I am a proud owner of both an Eastern King and an Eastern Indigo. All you Indigo guys know I spend all my time on the Indigo forum (as a matter of fact, that's how I knew to come here and enjoy the debate). I used to be big on believing that an Indigo would take a King until I read some experiences by others and talked to owners that had both of them all their lives.

I read, on the Indigo forum, about a month or two ago how someone thought their King was dying so he gave up on it and put it in the Indigo cage for food. He came back to notice that the ill King was killing his Indigo and he had to intervene and practically paralyze the King so the Indigo could eat him. Now I don't know sizes or anything but it definately made me think that the King had a distinct advantage and that was CONSTRICTION! If the King gets wrapped around the Indigo at anytime during the struggle I think the King would win out.

Now I love my Indigo and I think they are extremely powerful (Yes I have held adults, mine is only a year and a half old), they also can be extremely intimidating but I would definately have to say that my King eats a whole heck of a lot more than my Indigo. My King is a glutton and that's all that's to it. My Indigo can be somewhat finicky especially at this time of the year. They are both about the same age but the Indigo is now bigger and I can tell he seems more powerful when I hold him compared to my King.

Anyway, I'll never try the experiment out of putting them together to see who wins, I like them both way too much. Also, I think they BOTH deserve the title!! There that can settle it, it's a tie.

The debate is always fun though and everyone has a lot of passion for their pets!!
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Gregory S. Hake

Having spent over 47 years field collecting and 31of those years in Florida...ain't know doubt...Indigo's kick kings butt. As far as the argument of which one is able to adapt is not a valid argument. If numbers are the determining factor then the watersnakes are the champs. Though the indigo has a protected status, I think most herpers in the Tampa Bay area will tell you the chances of finding a kingsnake over an indigo is not the case. Twenty years ago that was not the case, but the kings are fastly disappearing, while indigos are maintaining more stable populations...IMHO based upon field observations. I see a half dozen indigos a year in this area and haven't seen a kingsnake in 10 years. I think the indigos are eating them all!!!