Reptile & Amphibian Forums

before I pose a question I would like to say this site is completely awesome, I love it!!! Genius guys.
I have a 10 by 30 by 15tall greenhouse filled with tropical vines, a big banana tree, bromiliads etc. The coolest it got this winter was 40 degrees. I use electric heat with a gas backup. It has an earthen floor always full of earthworms. The hottest it got in there last summer was 102f at the top and stayed about 72 near the bottom. The humidity is easily adjusted with mist and humidifier on a timer. I have a box fan on the ceiling which can cause a stiff breaze or a slight air movement.
My question is if y'all had this setup, which kind of cham would you keep and breed. I love them all and cannot decide which to get. I have had Fischers, Jackson's, and a very sick flapneck before the greenhouse. I am pretty with keeping them I think, as well as much experience with keeping herps in general.
Also in an enclosure this size and so thickly planted would it be possible to keep conspecifics together? Could I keep different species together if they were compatable size??
thanx, alan

>>before I pose a question I would like to say this site is completely awesome, I love it!!! Genius guys.

and gals!!

I'll let others make suggestions re: what kind of chams, just wanted to let you know that I envy you/your gh!

lele

>> I have a 10 by 30 by 15tall greenhouse filled with tropical vines, a big banana tree, bromiliads etc. The coolest it got this winter was 40 degrees. I use electric heat with a gas backup. It has an earthen floor always full of earthworms. The hottest it got in there last summer was 102f at the top and stayed about 72 near the bottom. The humidity is easily adjusted with mist and humidifier on a timer. I have a box fan on the ceiling which can cause a stiff breaze or a slight air movement.
>> My question is if y'all had this setup, which kind of cham would you keep and breed. I love them all and cannot decide which to get. I have had Fischers, Jackson's, and a very sick flapneck before the greenhouse. I am pretty with keeping them I think, as well as much experience with keeping herps in general.
>>Also in an enclosure this size and so thickly planted would it be possible to keep conspecifics together? Could I keep different species together if they were compatable size??
>> thanx, alan

sorry lele, should have known a female was involved, so well balanced and all. Again, thanks for having such a fantastic site.

oh, I'm not in charge or anything just a poster...thought you were referring to all the brains posting (not that I'm one of them), not behind the scenes LOL! I have no idea the gender of those folks - but you are right, it is a great place to learn. Got pix of your gh setup?

>>sorry lele, should have known a female was involved, so well balanced and all. Again, thanks for having such a fantastic site.

well I have pics of the unfinished g house from the outside, I will try to get it out of my briefcase and on to here, pray for me, lol. I dont have any pics of the inside but hope to get some real soon, when I do I will post. By the way, the sick flapneck i got several years ago was from "reptile addicts" in New York. I ordered several reps and amphibians from them in one big order. It was terrible. All the herps were sick or dead xcept for the red eye tree frogs. When I called him on the phone he was more or less like TOO BAD. He is a criminal and I hope he is not still in business. I wish this site would have been here then.

Alan,

I came across them in my inital search months ago...they are still in business http://www.reptileaddicts.com/ They are also know as Pets Plus. It was either here or on my T forum that someone had some real bad experience with them (Pets Plus - same people). It is really a shame that there are so many !@#$%^&* out there...I feel so sorry for their critters

>>well I have pics of the unfinished g house from the outside, I will try to get it out of my briefcase and on to here, pray for me, lol. I dont have any pics of the inside but hope to get some real soon, when I do I will post. By the way, the sick flapneck i got several years ago was from "reptile addicts" in New York. I ordered several reps and amphibians from them in one big order. It was terrible. All the herps were sick or dead xcept for the red eye tree frogs. When I called him on the phone he was more or less like TOO BAD. He is a criminal and I hope he is not still in business. I wish this site would have been here then.

42 is a little cold - i would not let it drop below 65 - so the back up is a good idea
-----
Jason, Ichiro, Mika & Toki

razior_@hotmail.com

Alan,

A greenhouse is a good idea - but there are some things to consider before going to the expense of building/buying one and stocking it with chameleons.

First - the roof. This material should allow UVB to come through. Most glass does not, and most plastics do not. We have researched this and found that specialized glass or very specialized plastic (rigid) is needed to allow the natural sunlight to come through. It gets expensive too.

Second.... the chameleons.
If you have a lushly planted area - the chams can go from plant to plant and infringe on someone else's territory. Even if they were all the same kind of chameleon - it would be very risky to have such an environment. Males tend to fight. There are some chams that can live in groups - but few species.

We thought of a way for each cham to have it's own territory from the ground up - like stalls in a barn. Plant a leafy tree for each one, and put a barricade around the trunk. This barricade prevents a male from going down the tree, across the ground and up the next tree. You have to keep the trees from touching too - chams can jump! This sort of thing has been done in the collection center for an exporter in Madagascar. He puts one male per tree and perhaps a few females. Each group stays in their "stall". Otherwise, you would have to have screened cages.

Misting and exhaust fans will be needed in the summer and some sort of heat will be needed in the winter - thermostatically controlled, of course. This is what we use in our breeding facility (unfortunately not a greenhouse - yet).

Some things to consider...
Morgana - Reptayls, Ltd.

Great suggestions! Another thing to think about is what you have planted in the greenhouse. There are quite a few plants that are toxic to chameleons... and most chameleons will consume some plant matter. I'm sure you probably know that already, but I figured I'd reinforce it .

Something else I thought of... Chameleons are masters of camouflage... They may be VERY hard to spot in such a large enclosure, depending on what species you choose.

Another thing to consider is that with such a large enclosure it may be difficult for them to find food. But you can always Cup-Feed them.

And I agree, 40 is a little cold. A few species can survive into the low 60's and maybe even upper 50's... But if your greenhouse gets into the upper 90's/low 100's, then you're going to want a more tropical species of cham... which will need higher temps at night and during the winter.

All in all, I think your biggest problem is going to be getting plastic or glass that will allow U.V. Rays to pass through it. They need this in order to prevent Metabolic Bone Disease... Again, you may know this, but I'm not sure.

Good luck! If you do it right, you should have some very happy chameleons who will want absolutely nothing to do with you! lol

-Howie

Many have commented on some of the issues to be concerned about (great points by the way) but we do admit that after running our pardalis operation through a greenhouse for many years now—it certainly has been a great experience for the panthers and the humans involved. Emphasis on getting the greenhouse tuned in for plants and the particular species you choose is crucial.

Once the greenhouse is “tweaked” however (temperature management primarily, along with humidity, and lighting requirements) then the benefits will soon be apparent. Although it cannot be overstated that OUR situation does not necessarily merit the use of greenhouses for ALL, we have experienced significantly larger clutch sizes, longer lives for both males and an additional breeding season for females too and generally healthier chameleons via greenhouse use (no eye problems, shedding issues, etc)—not to mention a dramatic increase in the amount of livable space in our own domicile when the chameleon setups were transferred to greenhouse space. The use of fog-it nozzles for watering your chameleons, placed on timers to really “pour on” the hydration is a real plus and you won’t worry a bit about ruining your carpet. If you let too many crickets loose then you won’t be kept awake at night trying to find that one rogue who is just out of reach behind the refrigerator at 2:38 A.M. Natural Biological processes, (isopods primarily, along with other soil dwelling invertebrates) will take care of “cleaning your cages”. An added caveat that we have experienced is the use of early morning timers that turn on some low wattage lights an hour before sunrise, attracting hundreds of night-dwelling, flying insects (otherwise known as free food and target practice for the chameleons) into the greenhouse through ½” mesh—the wild insects hide in the lush foliage within the greenhouse once the sun comes up and the chameleons spend the great part of their day hunting these tasty morsels throughout the daylight hours (to be promoted only where pesticides are not utilized, by the way).

There are many items of concern to be addressed long before you place a chameleon in a greenhouse, but we simply wanted to “toot the greenhouse horn” in favor of them for just a bit.

Take care and good luck.

Stephen O’Neal
Natural State Chameleons
info@truechameleons.com

Thank y'all very very much. I really appreciate all the advice and ENTHUSIASM. The advice will be well put to use.
I cannot wait to order my chams, whatever species I decide on. I will be able to make the ghouse a perfect invironment for them. I have one weak in which to decide so I really need to narrow it down.
Thank all y'all again, alan