Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello everyone, I have recently taken over as "herp specialist" at a pet store in my area. The store is fairly large, almost Petco like but we do a very good job with the animals and we try to educate everyone that buys them on their care. The reptile selection we have is fairly limited (as it should be for a non-specialized store) but we do carry some.

My manager is very reasonable about most things and she has allowed me to completely take over reptile care but she is stuck on one thing, calci-sand. I am trying to find articles that state the dangers of calci sand so that I can make a strong case against it. I need articles either from vets, herp societies, or even established breeders so that it doesn't look like I am just finding random stuff in a chat room and running with it.

I have found this article: http://pythons.com/calcium.html but was hoping for one or two more. If anyone can think of something I would be very greatful and the geckos at the store will thank you.

Thanks in advance,

--Andrea--
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~Andrea

2.8.1 Leopard geckos
0.0.1 Bearded dragon
0.0.2 Viper geckos
0.1.0 Rescued anole
2 dogs
hamsters

Check out my new website: DreamGecko.com

Time for me to throw in my proverbial 2 cents. I am the manager of a pet store here in my area. I now have 12 leopard geckos, that have always been kept on sand. I have had no instances with impaction. I do not recommend Calci-sand, not because of impaction issues, but because the dyes used in the Glo in the Dark and colored sands stain the bellies of the reptiles. I do however, suggest a sand called Reptilite, made by Carib Sea. The grains are rounded for easy digestion, they do tend to clump a little bit, but with a thin layer of ESU's lizard litter over top of it I've found my leos love it. They dig out their hides to find the right temps that they want, but otherwise move throughout their tanks without problem. The lizard litter does not clump when wet, and looks great. Although I fear another great sand debate thread, thats what I use, and will continue to use and sell.... regardless of that python article everyone wants to throw around.

Jeff

Thanks for your opinion, I definately respect it but I disagree. I used to think the same until 2 of my geckos became impacted (one died). I also know that shortly before I started working there that a gecko died and I asked a coworker what the symptoms and it defintely sounded like impaction to me (green belly, no poops etc) we have had a few fecal samples tested before and there have been no signs of parasites. Then a second one is impacted right now so i took it off the sand and it is improving, it finally pooped. This is why I'm so set against the calci-sand.

--Andrea--
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~Andrea

2.8.1 Leopard geckos
0.0.1 Bearded dragon
0.0.2 Viper geckos
0.1.0 Rescued anole
2 dogs
hamsters

Check out my new website: DreamGecko.com

Is the issue with calcisand with leos?...because some reptiles do best when they are kept on sand. At any rate...if its just for leos, then they should be ok on sand as long as they at least subadults and not hatchlings or small juvies. The best way to keep leos on sand is to have only a small portion of the tank sand...with the majority as slate or tile. Or you could try to convince your boss to just use some linoleum tile from home depot or lowes or menards (whatever's closest...). It's cheaper than calci-sand and can be cut to the shape of the tank with just a good pair of scissors...plus it's easily cleaned and doesn't need to be replaced often. And it looks pretty good if you get a rock-like pattern...which I'm sure is part of the issue.
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Christina

1.3.1 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)

-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)

-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)

-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

1.0 Australian Shepherd/Cattle dog cross (Foster)

Hello,
Yes the issue is with leopard geckos and AFTs which I know for a fact are having problems with the calci-sand. Sometimes the geckos are subadults but there are babies and juvies too so they are quite succeptable to impaction. I would like to put in this plastic (linoleum like) stuff that we sell for reptiles at the store since by using it with the instore enclosures will encourage customers to buy and use it too. I use tile with some of my own enclosures at home (I breed leos) so i definately know how effective it is but we need to use instore products with the displays. Thanks for the suggestions though, they are defintely very good options that i like recommending to customers and putting in the caresheets.
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~Andrea

2.8.1 Leopard geckos
0.0.1 Bearded dragon
0.0.2 Viper geckos
0.1.0 Rescued anole
2 dogs
hamsters

Check out my new website: DreamGecko.com

I am VERY reluctant to post this, because I do not want to see another huge argument over which substrate is the best. This is what I was told by some friends of mine who teach at UC Davis Veterinary School who conducted several experiments using calci-sand on various lizards:

Leopard Geckos have a very short GI system, and calci-sand does not always dissolve completely when it is ingested. The grains start to get soft and dissolve, but will tend to become sticky and clump together. This can cause impaction.

Also, calci-sand is made of calcium carbonate... the same substance that is used in Mylanta, Tums, or Rolaids, to reduce gastric acid. Since leopard geckos have a short GI system, a constant level of calci-sand throughout their digestive system will actually cut down the production of the gastric acids that are necessary to break down food for digestion. This can also add to the impaction potential, as well as prevent the complete absorption of food and nutrients.

The calcium powder we use as a supplement is the same stuff, but it is in very fine powder form which is designed to dissolve immediately and absorb in the gecko's system quickly.
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

at least try getting him to switch to very fine play sand.
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Christina

1.3.1 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)

-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)

-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)

-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

1.0 Australian Shepherd/Cattle dog cross (Foster)

I really appreciate you posting this, I realize the huge controversy this causes between different gecko owners. I think I will print off the pythons.com article and then sum up my own thoughts on calci-sand based on what I have experienced and heard from people I trust have their facts straight (like you). I just wish some of these things were published more often by herp societies or raw data from basic experiments.
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~Andrea

2.8.1 Leopard geckos
0.0.1 Bearded dragon
0.0.2 Viper geckos
0.1.0 Rescued anole
2 dogs
hamsters

Check out my new website: DreamGecko.com

I feel pretty lucky to have friends at UC Davis Vet School, and I pick their brains every opportunity I can. But, it is frustrating at times because much of the data is usually someone's dissertation material, or information they want to publish and they won't give me any hard copies to "leak out!" I can understand that, because I worked very hard on my own dissertation in grad school... but the wealth of information could benefit so many of us! Sometimes I put my own professional credibility on the line with this information, because inevitably someone will challenge me for written "proof" of the information I share. LOL!!!
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

Calci sand is like smoking, you can get lung cancer but maybe you won't, but why take the risk?

I'm not sure I would compare smoking with calci-sand...but anyway. I haven't found many actual sites that give evidence that you could bring to your boss, it's more of an accepted idea. Everyone knows it CAN cause impaction, so most people don't feel the need to put up information on it online. I wish I could help you! But I use sand for my girls without a problem, but I will tell you I've looked for stuff on it! It's just hard to find it. Sorry!
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-Kristen

0.5 Leopard Gecko (Buttercup, Beaker, Beauty, Blaze, and Bubbles)
1.1 Fat Tail Gecko (Bell and her new boyfriend Bowser!)
0.1 Deformed Leopard Gecko (Gimpy)

Proud owner and operator of a Powerbook G4! Why use windows, when I can use Panther? It even sounds better.

Hi

Maybe you could get a short letter from a vet. telling the negatives of it. Just my opinion.

TLB

I use Fre-Flo calcium carbonate bought at fleet farm it is a cattle feed suplement it works great.I have raised 1000 of geckos on it with great results.It is a little dusty and has no added color.I have used this for 7 years and a good friend has used it for 12 years with great results.