Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This male was produced from a Pied female to a Het. Pied male. Enjoy......Joe

Very nice! I produced a slight ringer this year from a 50% chance het pied that shows the belly sign to a normal. Do you think the ringers are any more likely in het pieds or is it just that so many het pieds are being produced and an odds thing?

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n/p

I have heard of ringers being produced from almost any type of breeding. I would like to say that this one has visible signs for het. being the rest wer true pieds but from what I've read and heard thats not acurate........At least he's nice to look at and het. pied to boot. Thanks for the reply.Joe

What is a visible sign for a het? I have ALOT of hets for different morphs and I've never heard of visible signs. Am I wrong - I'm no expert, just never heard of such.
BT

I think it's pretty well accepted that SOME het granite and het green Burmese pythons show with the intermediate puzzle and leopard patterns respectively. Why a "recessive" mutation would sometimes show in hets and sometimes not show I don't know but the Burms seem to have proven it possible.

The strongest candidate for sporadic visible het (or at least the best known candidate) in ball pythons is piebald. Many for sure het piebalds look perfectly normal but the below linked thread broke news of a possible het sign a year ago.

I don't have any for sure het piebalds of my own but my sister did buy three 50% possible hets and two of them showed the sign and almost exactly half of their babies have shown it. Here is a pic of one of my 25% chance het pied girls so of course I sure hope there is something to it.

I also picked up a pet store girl with this sign and she is currently breeding a 50% chance het pied male with the sign. Although I firmly believe there are lots of undiscovered hets out there I have to figure the odds of a false positive are at least as good as the odds of her being a random het (i.e. this sign is probably not exclusive to het pieds). The sign is also less then perfect in that many hets don't show it at all. Still it might be a useful tool in selecting possible hets for breeding projects and might explain why so many possible het piebalds have been produced since the beginning of pied breeding projects.

I've heard rumors of sporadic het signs in both genetic stripe and clown however I haven't seen good evidence or even full details of what the alleged signs might be. Even the pied sign is far from confirmed and there are many who don't accept it. However, the common thread between these ball python and the Burmese python mutations with sporadic signs is that they are all pattern mutations so something to keep a look out for, especially in pattern mutations.

Also, the alleged pied het sign in ball pythons is NOT ringer. I’m just trying to figure out if ringers are more likely in het pieds or not.

Feb 03 Kinsnake discussion

My humble thoughts,I am sure back when pieds came out they were taken to ringers on the off chance of getting lucky,thus putting some ringer genetics in the mix. Not all ringers are compatible so it just adds to the confusion. Ringers are cool,so its all good.

Good theory!

I wonder how much the influence of other genes from founding crosses shows up in morph lines years later. Maybe the white belly with black edges is a ringer thing and not a het pied thing after all. Also, is the reputation of pied lines as streaky feeders due to some gene other than pied in the early cross?

I've heard of and even seen a het ghost that shed clear - is it a sporadic showing of the het ghost condition or a holdback from non ghost clear shedders breed into the line on the off chance they where really ghosts?

I think alot will be learned as we go along,and there are alot of little things out there already.One that I have noticed is from The Snakekeeper,If you look over the next year at the babys they produce,alot of them have two half circles on their upper lip infront of the nose holes,thats not common is it? Is it a trait from a founding animal? I know the parents influence the babys but,how much beyond pretty colors? It will be so fun figuring it out!!!

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