Reptile & Amphibian Forums

come from O.S. or one of you private breeders to be real. I bought a Lereh from D&J Reptiles. They say there animals are micro chipped and of pure locale. Also Bushmaster Reptiles claims to have locality true Lereh. I guess these guys are just lying basterds according to some of you ( mostly private breeeders) I agree some locales are given just by appearance but are you guys really saying none of these locals are the real deal. Basically it seems if not "approved" by the fine folks at Chondroweb.com and there associates that if you buy a "locale" animal you are buying a lie. Seems to me a little bullsh*t is comming from both sides.
Wingert

i totaly agree...i havent bought my chondro YET..but ive been watching this forum and the other well known chondro forum for several months now...and my observation is this...i get the destinct impression that tho these local breeders are very knowageable and helpfull about the care and breeding of these wonderfull animals...they seem a bit concerened that there are folks out there that are way underselling them...i mean way underselling them...from everything ive read on the posts they would have you believe that if your chondro didnt cost 600-1000 buck that its doomed.."must be wild caught" "sure its not captive hatched and not captive bread"..just seems fishy to mee..just seems like the "experts" just want to keep the prices up by putting down everyone elses less expencive snakes so they can make more $$..i mean no disrespect as the ppl are very knowlagable...and helpfull...i just cant get behind thier reasoning for such high prices..tho i have a feeling it wont be long before your average joe snake dude has a few clutches and lets them go for reasonable prices..ive thought of breeding myself..i dont know if i will but if i doo you wont see my chondos priced through the roof...i almost want to do it just to proove a pouint..but then that would be for the wrong reasons..well im sure this probubly annoyed you big dollar breeders and i appologize..i mean no disrespect..its just ive seen this game played in many other areanas and now its made it to the herps..kinda like spending 5 bucks on a quart of harley davidson oil because it says hd on it and they say its "specialy formulated"..truth is its specialy formulated for desile engines not harles and is no different than the 1.29 oil you get at auto zone...anyway..my feeling is your just paying for the name

again no disrespect intended..just adding my 2 cents

I don't think anyone would take offense to your points. Many people who are new to the world of tree pythons notice the sort of pricing discrepancies you refer to. Bottom line is that when you're starting out, price is an obvious issue. When the frequently advertised animals on the classifieds are posted for around $300 and some other animals are selling for several thousand dollars it's easy to be confused. You'll find that as you begin to keep tree pythons you'll appreciate the history of the species in captivity more and more. Many of the more expensive animals come from lineages that have pedigrees that go back into the mid-1970's. The history of those animals and the high likelihood of mature phenotypic certainty adds a lot of value to those individuals. It's like owning a peice of history, and because animals from those lines have been bred selectively, you're likely to end up with something extraordinary. The more expensive animals aren't for everyone but if you find yourself sticking with tree pythons you're sure to add some to your collection at some point. As far as a first animal... I'd wholeheartedly suggest an established captive born baby. There are many quality babies available every year from high calibre breeders... people with a primary interest in the success of their animals and those who end up caring for them. If your first experience is a good one you're likely to stick around and if there's one thing this world needs it's more Chondroheads!
Take care,
Damon

>>I don't think anyone would take offense to your points. Many people who are new to the world of tree pythons notice the sort of pricing discrepancies you refer to. Bottom line is that when you're starting out, price is an obvious issue. When the frequently advertised animals on the classifieds are posted for around $300 and some other animals are selling for several thousand dollars it's easy to be confused. You'll find that as you begin to keep tree pythons you'll appreciate the history of the species in captivity more and more. Many of the more expensive animals come from lineages that have pedigrees that go back into the mid-1970's. The history of those animals and the high likelihood of mature phenotypic certainty adds a lot of value to those individuals. It's like owning a peice of history, and because animals from those lines have been bred selectively, you're likely to end up with something extraordinary. The more expensive animals aren't for everyone but if you find yourself sticking with tree pythons you're sure to add some to your collection at some point. As far as a first animal... I'd wholeheartedly suggest an established captive born baby. There are many quality babies available every year from high calibre breeders... people with a primary interest in the success of their animals and those who end up caring for them. If your first experience is a good one you're likely to stick around and if there's one thing this world needs it's more Chondroheads!
>>Take care,
>>Damon
>>

Putting personal opinions on locality aside, (I got tired of the locality arguments that were common place here)you might want to check out some my favorite other green tree python forums:

http://pub95.ezboard.com/fmoreliaviridisfrm1

http://www.moreliapythons.com/forum/phpBB2/index.php

http://chondroforum.bogusz.org/

I find that a wide range of opinions on varying subjects can be found at these forums. Personally I like to hear many opinions and make my own decisions.

Dave Prada
Komodo Reptiles

THE BIG BAD CHONDROWEB PEOPLE ARE OUT TO GET YOU!!!

Just kidding of course. I think you need to take another look at what these folks are saying, and why they say the things that they do. Then decide who is deceiving whom. I really don't think anyone is trying to mislead you about the locale issue. There are legitimate importers in the reptile trade and this is widely recognized. Sadly, there are criminals and con artists as well. Despite what you might think, most chondroheads are not against locality animals. It's just hard to find honest/educated dealers who accurately represent their chondros. There is no reason for me to suspect that the two importers you mentioned are dishonest with respect to locality representation. In fact, Kamuran Tepedelen, the owner of Bushmaster Reptiles Inc, actively participates on the Chondroforum. Many of the locality "pure" bloodlines in the US originate from their stock. The two verifiable Aru's I own came from OS... who got their stock from... Bushmaster.

My chondro collection consists entirely of Aru’s. I have ten of them. I only consider two of them to be verifiably “pure”. The other eight are incredibly gorgeous in my opinion, but I will always refer to them as “types”. I don’t have a problem with that. Hell, I even paid more for the non-documented Aru’s than for the locality Aru’s. My point is that beauty and value can both be VERY subjective things. If you like your “Lereh” from so-and-so importers then who really cares what anyone else thinks? BUT, if you plan on breeding the snake to another “Lereh”, you better be able to verify their origins before you market them as locality pure. Catch my drift? To emphasize my point, how do you think an alterna enthusiast would respond if you were to tell him/her that your collection of graybands all came from the Davis Mountains because they just look like the ones that come from that area? They would laugh you to scorn!

Money is not the issue with me. You see I have no problem with the high dollar snakes. I think they are worth it. My Lereh cost me 800.00 wich is not high dollar but it's not 250.00 either. What bothers me is when I have looked for a male many of the breeder only crowd said things like: "lereh are made up by importers to charge more" , "all the locals are false" Maybe they are right and it's my loss for spending more on this animal than it's worth because it's really from nowhere. Like I mentioned when I went looking for a mate I was shot down by many of the special people with real chondros. I haven't let my chondro know yet that she is worthless but I'm sure she will dissagree anyway. I hope that she is a true Lereh and if there is such a thing I think she fits the mold. She is posted on venomous.org for sale or trade. I will keep her if I can find a male. So if anyone has a male or interest in checking her out email me and I will send some pics. Also if any of you "experts" would like to see her to voice your opinion on her locale feel free to contact me and I will send pics. Regardless she is a perfect something.
Wingert xeropaga1@yahoo.com

that put you, or rather your snake down - but I know it was not me. You think you need to be carfeful who you are including in what just because they may or may not visit other forums and/or how much they sell their snakes for. Chondors are awesome animals, and I hope you don't choose to get out of them because of one or two peoples responses to you - so good luck finding a mate for the girl you have. If I were you I would simply look for another animal that looks like the one you have if that is a look you like. So what if they are locality specific or "type"...especially as you don't seem too concerned on monitary values assigned to them. Again, good luck on your search and enjoy...!...TW

Thanks Trooper. I never brought you up. Sorry if your site was mentioned but that is where some of these comments came from but not directley. Forgive me for mentioning your site. I hope the folks who offended me read this forum and am not trying to be careful about what I say. A snobs a snob. All this has not changed my opinion on GTPs. They are still high on my list. It's certain breeders that I will be avoiding.

>>No offense taken. And for the record...I don't have a site. I visit a number of forums, including this one. And although I may have certain philosophies about Chondros and their care - I don't necessarily tie in at any one place. I go to the forums to have fun, to learn, and share my views on things...which has never included putting down anyone for the animals they keep or views expressed. Again - good luck on your search for that perfect mate...TW

Hi just following in on the whole topic here. and i wish you had a sight. fan of your work. love to see what your working on now or in future. verry difficult to go to any show out of NY due to working weekends but always looking out for sales. any way chondros are a new to me just completed my 1st pair. sorong and a designer from Dan at Ultimate Aboreals.just wanted to share a little and say TROOPER YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!!!LoL thanks

Well ,I have to say this person who gave you this response to your Chondro...Does not reflect all Chondro Web Members there are alot of good people there...Now I didnt see your post that I can remember.....But dont confuse the fact that in order to call our chondros Locale specific names we need documentation to back this up...Im a believer that history of Chondros is paramont and hope it continues....Enjoy your chondro you may get hooked and end up with more... I started with a few wc I cant say I totally regret this it taught me alot......And price aint everything but try to buy cbb in the future they can be alot easier to deal with...Good luck and keep on collecting Chondros I know I will (PB)
A male chondro sold to me as Cbb with no documentation I like him no matter what

I guess I need to learn how to post a pic here....He was sold as a cbb.... I call him a wc after many fecal smaples and the way he eats...The colors he has green yellow blue white.....I have to believe he is cb...But again I really dont care he helped produce my first clutch of 15 eggs Jan 27 th...With a female sold to me as cbb and could well be wc dont matter to me its helping me to learn how to breed chondros....Dont let people make you get a bad feeling about these animals......They are great

I'm sorry that you have had a bad experience with some of the comments concerning your chondro. Anyway, I do think that there are locality animals to be had, but like it's been said, there are only a handful of dealers you can trust. DON'T give up on chondros just because someone else has a different opinion about where your snake may have come from. It's too bad that some people automatically discredit locality claims just because there are hoaxes in the mix. If you stick around long enough, you will come to know who has the real thing and who is full of crap.

May I ask how you framed your original post? I mean did you post a pic of the snake and ask "What locality is this chondro?" or "Is this a Lereh?" or was it like "This is a Lereh I just bought from so-and-so Reptiles". The reason I ask is because people often post a pic and then ask the forum what locality their snake is. In this case there is practically no sure way to tell. On the other hand, if someone were to post a pic of a legitimately documented animal, and the reply was still "Localities are a scam" or whatever you said you were told, then yeah... I'd get mad too. I think most people would.

I have contacted numerous breeders and dealers. Some of these have tried to talk me into buying there animals because what I am looking for is made up. I have also heard that my "Lereh" should up and die any day now because she was not U.S. cbb.
All this is hard to hear since I did spent good money on her. Someone mentioned that OS gets their Arus from Bushmaster. If this is true OS, whos Arus are of pure locale according to Chondrowebs rules of advertising, trusts that the Arus are the real deal but Bushmaster is simply making up the Lerehs. I think some of it is these breeders are full of $h!t. I have not spoke directley to OS. Please do not misread any of this. I brought them up to make a point, not to bad mouth them. I am considering selling her so I have money to buy a pair, not to get out of Chondros. She is very healthy and has no idea that she should die soon.
Wingert

This is picture of my snake I purchased from KS seller last year that was represented as a cb wamena. I am sure most would agree it is a Biak type. She's going on 2 and I'm certainly not regretting my purchase one bit.

I also purchased a pair of "farmed" sorongs knowing that there was no verification on them. They are both biak type also and are the only chondros to have come to me with parasites.

I like knowing what I'm getting much better and have enjoyed problem free cbb chondros now from several breeders.

Unless you can verify the source, it's all a crap shoot. The up side is that it's not easy to find an ugly chondro... no matter the source!! Enjoy the Green!!

Cathy M.

Thanks for your post Cathy. The animal you posted is very nice. I thought the source i got mine from was legit but I have been told otherwise. I still think D&J are honest despite what others may say.
Wingert