Reptile & Amphibian Forums

In the discussion about PETA and banning meretseger wrote:

"Sounds great, they'll be able to ban keeping reptiles REALLY fast that way. (the enemy of your enemy is not always your friend)"

I was thinking as i read the posts that perhaps having a ban on stores selling reptiles wouldn't be such a bad idea, with the inhumanine way they are being kept but after reading the above.....i've got to admit, i'd be concerned that they would go a bit to far and ban reptiles completely.

The small pet store near me is no better than what has been described, leos on sand, no humid hide (skin stuck to them), a hot rock that they sleep under. I've wanted to take them home and give them proper care but i have come to realize that i can't rescue every leo. I don't have the space to quarentine them properly right now. All i can do is show them pics of my setups and suggest they change but ultimaletly its up to them to do it.

IMO freaking out at managers isn't the answer....we'd need to do it at every store. Instead i believe that education is the way to go. Writing ariticles in the local paper and perhaps doing presentations in schools might be more effective. Sending the kids home with two booklets, one for them, one for their parents on the responsibility of owning a reptile, lists of local reptile vets and breeders and info on the current mistreatment being done. I believe someone already said us customers are powerful.....we educate them better and sales will fall, thus big companies will follow suit and change their ways.

I've wanted to go into schools for a long time but now i think it could actually work to benefit the reptiles we hold dear. I just don't know how to set up a cage that i could transport easily, keep heated etc. and find breeders and vets willing to come on board. Not to mention the worry of stressing out my pet. Much to figure out but i still believe its a good idea.

Red
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

If they ban them in stores- meaning that all the good pet reptile pet stores that were boons to our community will go out of business- well, if stores can't sell reptiles then Joe Herper certainly can't do it. We'll all probably have to get breeder licenses. With state inspections. You pretty much have to do the same thing to breed mammals commercially so there's even already a system in place. Then of course, we can't expect averge Joe Citizen to KEEP reptiles. Not if it was so tough for all those stores. We'd better license and inspect all the keepers too. Well, why go to all that hassle so a few wierdos can endanger us with salmonella?...

Anyway... there is NOTHING wrong with a store selling reptiles. There's something wrong with stores seling reptiles badly. And we already have laws against that, they just need to be enforced.
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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convient pocket size!

True i do agree, however the laws aren't being enforced. the SPCA and PETA don't seem to care about the welfare of reptiles since this has been going on for so long with little responce. I agree that not all stores are bad, but if the majority continue to sell and tell people the improper way to maintain the health of the pet, all they are doing is thinking of profit not the wellbeing of the animal. Educating the public helps them to make better decisions about where they buy, what they buy and hopefully understand that reptiles aren't disposable pets. Parents need to become more responsible and not allow an animal into the family without knowing the care and expence involved.

I can find iguanas in almost every store i go into but do the store employees every mention the amount of space they will eventually require.......NO. I must say though that the store i have here, actually gave me a video on iguanas when i was thinking of getting one...the video described all they required. Perhaps stores should be required to give out a handout of the care of the animal before they can sell that must be signed by the customer before the purchase..caresheets that are up todate and have the pros and cons of using different substrates etc. Maybe the prices should be upped to what main stream breeders charge for high end geckos...Having to pay alot more for them might encourage people to read up more...thus preventing impluse buying....The Petsmart in my area had gone through at least 3 batches of geckos (aft's and leos) in the time they had the crested gecko pair that i now have. No one wanted to pay $200 per gecko and the store ended up practically giving them to me (i paid a small amount) cause they didn't want the expence of keeping them if they weren't goign to sell.

Theres no one solution, many people here have suggested many routes of attack so to speak. We can do alot and get results, but unfortunetly it will take time. Laws aren't created and enfourced overnight, big companies aren't goign to change quickly either.

There is hope and i'm going to do what i can to make it better.

Red

>>If they ban them in stores- meaning that all the good pet reptile pet stores that were boons to our community will go out of business- well, if stores can't sell reptiles then Joe Herper certainly can't do it. We'll all probably have to get breeder licenses. With state inspections. You pretty much have to do the same thing to breed mammals commercially so there's even already a system in place. Then of course, we can't expect averge Joe Citizen to KEEP reptiles. Not if it was so tough for all those stores. We'd better license and inspect all the keepers too. Well, why go to all that hassle so a few wierdos can endanger us with salmonella?...
>>
>>Anyway... there is NOTHING wrong with a store selling reptiles. There's something wrong with stores seling reptiles badly. And we already have laws against that, they just need to be enforced.
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>>Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convient pocket size!
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

They already require the handing out of caresheets in California. The tropical fish dealers weren't too happy, since they can stock hundreds of species at a time.
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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convient pocket size!

The responsibility has to start somewhere. I still believe that educating the public on the proper care of animals and upping the prices a bit so they can't be bought on a whim is the best way.

I mean really.....if manufacturers made the materials for geckos that we all use ie. a humid hide that looks like a cave, tile substrate that fit tanks etc. their profits might go up.

Red

>>They already require the handing out of caresheets in California. The tropical fish dealers weren't too happy, since they can stock hundreds of species at a time.
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>>Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convient pocket size!
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

PETA is for house animals, they would prefer the banning of all non domesticated animals as pets, in fact from what I have read PETA thinks your a murderer for feeding off rodents to other animals.

Sure they may want to stop petco from selling animals, which sounds like a good thing, but they don't want to stop there, so I would think twice about supporting them.

I didn't know they were like that. Is it them who are trying to stop fishing? With people having different ideas, opinions i guess we can't satisfy everyone but i do enjoy fishing and having geckos as pets....Hopefully they wont take away all of my enjoyment lol
Red

>>PETA is for house animals, they would prefer the banning of all non domesticated animals as pets, in fact from what I have read PETA thinks your a murderer for feeding off rodents to other animals.
>>
>>Sure they may want to stop petco from selling animals, which sounds like a good thing, but they don't want to stop there, so I would think twice about supporting them.
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

PETA and other radical animal rights groups believe that animals and humans have the same rights. They believe animals should NOT be kept in captivity under any circumstance, be consumed or used in any way (including worn, like leather shoes). These groups are rabid extremists in my opinion, and their campaign against Petco is only the tip of the iceburg. If they had their way, nobody would keep a pet of any kind... ever!
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

I'm not a prejudice person until it comes to extremists. They are going a bit far to suggest we don't consume animals....In nature all things are consumed, animals, plants, are we so above the law of nature to go against that??? (no offence intended to vegatarians out there) but i like my steak every now and then hehehe. Theres nothing wrong with keeping pets as long as people are made aware of the responsibility that comes with it, be it a dog, cat or gecko. Thats where theres fault.....to much misinformation and a general disrespect for reptiles. My geckos are no different than my dog....members of the family and deserve just as much care and attention as does any other animal. All life on earth has the RIGHT to live and *thrive*. This applies to all animals and plants. As long as one can thrive then their needs are being met. Geckos that can live out their 20 years and reproduce in my opinion are thriving. In order for that to happen they need the proper environment (captive or wild). Baby geckos kept on sand with no humid hide covered in unshed skin and remaining pencil thin aren't thriving....

Thats the way i look at it and this problem can be solved without going overboard banning everything. I hope it doesn't end up that way
Red
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

Hoping isn't going to cut it with these groups. The HSUS (who also wants to ban fishing) is petioning the government to ban reptile keeping. You can go to PETA's website yourself and read that they think no one should be keeping 'wild' animals as pets.
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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convient pocket size!

Well i guess i'd have to ask them what they would plan to do with the millions of captive bred animals out there......you can't just send them out into the wild, they won't be able to survive.....it would be a death sentence. They would be going against what is the very thing they are trying to do....save the animals.

Red

>>Hoping isn't going to cut it with these groups. The HSUS (who also wants to ban fishing) is petioning the government to ban reptile keeping. You can go to PETA's website yourself and read that they think no one should be keeping 'wild' animals as pets.
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>>Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convient pocket size!
-----
Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

PETA would have to TAKE my babys (leos) from me !!!!!!!!

I can imagine the new underground community that would be created if that should happen. My geckos are a huge part of my life.....i'm not going to give them up without a fight.
Red

>>PETA would have to TAKE my babys (leos) from me !!!!!!!!
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

Im sorry red but i dont mean to be an ass when i say this but not everyone feels the same way you and I feel. They really dont care about reptiles or animals or any sort of nature.
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Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-------------------------------~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!

Its a shame everyone can't enjoy the beauty in the geckos that we see. I simply can't help but love them. Thats why this forum is so nice to come to......being able to share this with people of like mind.

Red

>>Im sorry red but i dont mean to be an ass when i say this but not everyone feels the same way you and I feel. They really dont care about reptiles or animals or any sort of nature.
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>>Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
>>Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
>>Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
>>Leopard Geckos ROCK!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-------------------------------~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
>>Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
>>Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
>>Leopard Geckos ROCK!!!
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)