Reptile & Amphibian Forums

LOL...I knew that would get a rise.

I make my home the King forum; no, this isn't a "King vs. Indigo" type thing. I love Eastern Indigos and if I could have one I would - as it is I handle the tire-sized around, cool as all get up Eastern that Dean A. delivered to the Museum here in MS; they are historic in Mississippi and I'm from Florida so I'm screwed in terms of having an E Indigo (sadly, you can still find jokers in S. Florida at a flea market that will sometimes have them other another name, just hitting the wild populations even worse).

Dry are the masters of NA snakes, I'm one of the kingsnake lovers who is all to familiar with monster Indigos so all joking aside they really are remarkable snakes; the biggest I've held and seen was at Treaure Coast Animal hospital in s. Florida - this bastar# was 7'4" of baby to handle but what he did to a jumbo rat still freaks me out...! I'd still put any one of my really big Easterns or Floridas up against a young adult Dry, but after that...no thanks, I've got too much money invested in my crew to get a pile of shi% handed to me in a plastic bag a few days later!

Here's a couple of questions I had for you guys since you keep up with all things Dry.

How does a Cribo (or can they) crush a 6-7' Boa? A smaller Boa, no problem. But does a 8' YT/BT have the strength to keep pressing on that ball of steel boas make when attacked (you know, keeping the head covered, etc)? I swear you could use one of those damm snakes as a basketball when it gets in that position, and man talk about some muscle! I'm not a boid guy but I saw snake wranglers the other night and they were holding a 7' boa and it made that ball of steel and it looked like it would take a axe to break it. Would a Dry grab it and just work on it for however long it takes or after a few minutes cruise on for its next victim?

Two. And this should get a rise out you guys...how does a Dry avoid being destroyed by a large Clelia clelia, the Mussurana of Central and South America? These 8' plus, specialized, snake eating, rear-fanged, constricting machines are freakin' unreal and I've been trying to get one (not the smaller sp. that some folks will sell you) for two years now!

I talked with a guy who did 17 years of research on Mussurana and I asked him about this very thing...he chuckled and said that the only ophiophagus snake it had to fear was a larger sp. or some Cobras. This isn't a pissing contest, just a serious question - kings are one thing, Muss. a totally other situation.
What's your guys honest take on this match up?

BTW Dean A. - Sisson says to come play with his plastron, hump your Indigos, and get into some real herps like frogs or salamaders! LOL

Peace,

-John

wimpy??? i think not! today, the 03 female yt i traded dean for awhile back attacked my 6 month old kitten for real!!! ok, so there was a piece of glass between them but she did not care in the least. she came FLYING out of her hide when he passed by, snapping her jaws and following him down the line trying to get a piece of him bigtime. i couldn't believe my eyes!! this girl has SOME attitude!!! thanks alot dean, i just got rid of pyscho-babe only to have unknowingly replaced her w/ something possibly even worse. LOL!......also dean, my stillwater bulls have been locking up this week. stand by, i got a pair w/ your name on them if you'd like............

Glad that snake at the museum is still doing well. His brother is a perfect stunning red snake that has fathered ALOT of my babies.

I've never seen a cribo kill a boa...but I know Dr. Minon has seen it done and that's as good as if I saw it myself to me.

He says in his autobiography (Life, Love and Reptiles) that cribos in Mexico (I believe he was talking about melanurus but he doesn't specify) that they have been known to kill and eat boas as large as 5'. That's a damn hefty boa.

Dryguy had an accidental meeting that ended up with a 7' unicolor killing and eating a 7' carpet python.

Contrary to popular opinion, Drys don't just bite and thrash. You've held them...it would be a terrible waste of strength.

They bite and lock, then pin HARD and YANK. They dislocate vertebrae and sometimes even tear prey in half. It's an exteremly violent process.

Granted...I'd be awed to see one kill a 5' boa constrictor.

Let's face it...it'd be a matter of the ambush. You can grab a boa and slam it if you catch it off guard. If the boa got a chance to wrap...I can't see the Dry winning at that point.

PS: Tell Sisson to stop being such a little girl and write for himself instead of hiding behind his friends. "I hope it rains, we might see a frog".!!

I don't think a cribo could do much if a 6-7 foot boa curled up in a defensive ball... then again, I think a 7 foot boa would be more than a cribo would mess with or overcome.

Mussuranas over cribos in most cases. It's kind of hard to describe without sounding silly, but the feeding response that my clelia show, at least in my opinion, is the most powerful and intense attack that I have seen from any reptile that I have had. They specialize in taking snakes and it is obvious even when fed mice. They'll throw 5 or 6 coils, when only 2 fit on the mouse, while the rest of the body is trying to find something to coil on.

Add the rear fang envenomation that would be utilized and you have something that will be a real predator of cribos.

In fact the first time I had ever heard of Mussuranas was a story told to me by Bill Lamar about how he had captured a Clelia and the Cribo it was chasing. He put them together in a bag and the sound that was heard, paraphrasing Mr Lamar, was either ribs breaking or vertabrae separating.

My experience is that Eastern Indigos are heavier bodied than the species of Clelia that I have (Clelia occipitolutea or Boiruna maculata). I think a mussurana of equal length to a cribo could probably kill the cribo, but not eat it. Thinking about it... my "Mu's" are a bit over 4 feet and I can't imagine a 4 foot indigo or cribo standing a chance.

Then again, cribos get much bigger. I'm not sure at what size the cribo would overpower the mussurana. I would think my big bull male indigo, about 8 feet, would have either of my mu's eaten in no time at all. But he's a full grown adult male and the mu's are still juveniles . My adult female could probably eat my mu's, she's 6 feet plus. I would bet that by the end of this year they will be at least her equal in the "battle royal", and her superior by 2005

This is all speculation. I won't be testing my theories anytime. The species of Drymarchon and the species of Clelia that I have are from opposite ends of their respective ranges. The species of Clelia I have would most likely come into contact with Yellow Tail Cribos. I would guess a full grown Yellow Tail would be more snake than a clelia would mess with.
Anything less is probably gonna be Mu'Food.

Having said all this, I'm sure that mussuranas are predated on by all sorts of critters, scaly, furry or feathered.

Doug