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Not a fair fight with the size difference...
but gives the idea...the head is just crushed.

Poor little guy tried to fight.

This was an accident with a dry keeper who accidentally put a knig temporarily in an indigo cage he thought was empty.

Personally...I had an accident myself a year ago with a 5'6" cal king (yes, I'm not eggagerating) she was in my collection over 12 years.

She escaped during cleaning and ended up finding her way into a 6' male TX indigo cage.

The result was no outward signs of struggle on the Texan, just a swollen belly. I'm raising up a few of her babies now. Something I'm not proud of...but it happened.

ya know that is pretty sad dino and shows NOTHING!'cept ignorance on a keepers part ,the same thing could/would happen in size A difference scenario,and whats really sad is that pic i would guess be a 6to7ft,5to6lb. indigo eating a 4to5ft fla.king thats maybe 3lbs,yeah thats fair,and i suppose you HONESTLY beleive that the same thing wouldnt happen if the sizes were reversed?,gimme a break,,,kings rule ,and thats the bottom line. as i said before indigos due deserve "royal status" but not that of a king noway nohow more like the fool or jester in the kings court,,,long live the king,,,,,,,,thomas

Pretty much told how sad the picture was. I agree with that.

But it certainly does say something.

Sorry the picture you upset...but it happened and why not learn from it.

I for one have had enough of the "kings rule
indigos drool" stuff.

It's just silly. It's all based on heresay.

Yep, that's a sad, ugly picture all right. But, this sort of thing happens sometimes. I've heard of a situation where someone put an Indigo in a cage temporarily with a couple of Green Tree Pythons, too...that also resulted in a fatter Indigo. I guess it's sort of like the Indigo version of going out for exotic food...like a little private Indonesian buffet.

That picture sort of shows the difference in musculature between the two, doesn't it? I realize the king snake isn't as long as the Indigo, but still there's not more than a couple of feet difference in length. What would be interesting is to see an adult Indigo and Kingsnake of the same length side-by side (not trying to eat each other)...maybe a couple of good, healthy 6-footers.

In reality, a lot ofother snakes predate upon each other and upon other snakes. I have had GOPHER snakes canibalize their brethren. I have seen Dumerils boas swallow each other up. So...Deans post isnt that horrednous in my book, it is a reality of these snakes. Dean tried to make the disclaimer very clear. All this is done in fun, the whole Indigo snake, my snake can beat your snake, my dogs tougher than your dog, my weapons of mass destruction are tougher than your weapons of mass destruction(Unless you dont have any in the first place)
All in fun.

*Cheers*

Fred Albury

I wonder if I would post a PIC of a king eating a smaller Indigo on the Indigo forum & say it's all in fun what the responces would be.........."EXACTLY THE SAME" is my guess!

Mike

Posted by: DeanAlessandrini at Wed Feb 25 14:15:36 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Pretty much told how sad the picture was. I agree with that.

But it certainly does say something.

Sorry the picture you upset...but it happened and why not learn from it.

I for one have had enough of the "kings rule
indigos drool" stuff.

yeah it does say something (the pic) dean it says an indigo twice the size of kingsnake can eat a king half its own size WOW! how would of thought!,but the fact is kings do rule! and had the king outsized the indigo by as much as in that pic the king would take the indigo w/o a problem,why not learn from it gimme a break nothing to learn from put cannibilistic snakes together that are half the size of each other and 1 will eat the other WOW! i guess there is a lesson,,,,long live the kingsnake ruler of N.american colubrids . and whether youve had enough of it or not the FACT remains kings do rule and indigos do drool.,get over it !!! pics like that show nothing but pure idiocy on the keepers part and also gives you indigo folks some kind of joy?its kinda like the guy who says i kicked mike tysons butt,but fails to mention that it happened in the 2nd grade,does that really mean anything?get a grip man and bow to the king!
thomas davis

King snakes do not rule. They are not the undisputed "King of Snakes". How do I know? Because I'm disputing it. That's makes it no longer undisputed. Indigos rule. Why? Because I say so. Just like you say Kings rule. So far I haven't seen a valid picture of a King Snake eating an Indigo, but I have seen one of an Indigo eating a King Snake. I saw Kieth's Photshopped picture, and it was funny and all of that, but it ain't the real thing.

So, I say Indigos rule, you say King Snakes rule. Now down to the real question. Who cares? What difference does it make who can beat up who? What's best for you might not be best for the next guy, your opinion might not necessaarily agree with anyone elses. So what? It is YOUR opinion that King Snakes rule. That does not in any way make it fact. It is my opinion that Indigos rule, and that does not in any way make that fact. It just happens that you like King Snakes better than Indigos. I like Indigos better than King Snakes, but I keep both. So, King Snakes are King for you, Indigos are King for me. By the way, Drymarchon translates to "Ruler of the Forest".

I can say that I've never seen a King Snake BEHEAD another snake, but I have seen an Indigo do it. Not some little King Snake, either, a 5 foot Eastern Diamondback.

All still in fun....

Hate to see it get eaten. Thats one nice snake.

*cheers*

Fred Albury

So which species is endangered throughout its range and which is thriving?

Hmmmmm.

kk

Neither. Indigos are listed as "Threatened", but not as Endangered. King Snakes are protected in parts of their range, also.

A big part of the reason Indigos are listed as "Threatened" is because of overcollecting for the pet trade in the 1960s and early 1970s. What does that tell you? Maybe that the demand was so high because they are great snakes? Of course, habitat availability is the biggest problem they face now. What it means overall is that Indigos would be thriving throughout their range now had it not been for human intervention in one form or another. King Snakes are not immune to that...

Indigos are listed as "Threatened", but not as Endangered. King Snakes are protected in parts of their range, also.

Whoops, wrong choice of words I guess. You are obviously correct, they are not endangered so to speak. But I wasn't aware that kings were threatened anywhere in their range? Can you cite your source? I know in Alabama and Georgia they are doing fine. What about the indigo in those two states?

KINGS RULE!!

A big part of the reason Indigos are listed as "Threatened" is because of overcollecting for the pet trade in the 1960s and early 1970s. What does that tell you?

What does that tell me? Ummmmmm that those keeping them in captivity are responsible? I guess I don't really follow you on this point.

KINGS RULE!!

Maybe that the demand was so high because they are great snakes?

Or maybe they are large, slow moving, conspicuous snakes that don't adapt to changes in their environment?

KINGS RULE!!

Of course, habitat availability is the biggest problem they face now. What it means overall is that Indigos would be thriving throughout their range now had it not been for human intervention in one form or another.

Key word there... WOULD BE THRIVING. Oh don't we all wish for what MIGHT have been. LOL.

KINGS RULE!!

King Snakes are not immune to that...

Of course they aren't. Once the entire country is paved over and there is a deserted Walmart and a public housing project every 100 yards then all serpentine creatures will be beyond protection. But I'd say KINGS are doing better than indigos at this point in time though, wouldn't you agree?? LOL.

Oh yeah, KINGS RULE!!

kk

Actually I said that King Snakes are protected in parts of their range. Not necessarily threatened or endangered. They are protected in the entire State of Georgia. Not that that really means anything as far as population health. But, then again, there are pockets in Florida where couperi are fairly common. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that in those pockets, Kingsnakes are NOT common.

The point is that Indigos are a niche animal. They have fairly restrictive environmental requirements. It would be an easy matter to wipe them out completely if they weren't protected. Any animal that is confined to a certain type of habitat and climate can easily be decimated by people. It wouldn't be difficult to wipe out every Lion in Africa...does that make them any less King of their domain? Tigers have already been nearly wiped out throughout their range...are they not Kings of their domain?

It could be argued (successfully) that Kingsnakes are more adaptable that Indigos. The same can be said of cockroaches.

There are some healthy populations that live in the vicinity of agricultural canals in south Florida, but other that, they are pretty much extirpated in the rest of Florida. Throughout most of the state, the indigo snake is a more common animal.

Indigo's are more common than kingsnakes in Florida ? I always thought otherwise . What population study are you citing for this remark ? Seems there are quite a few Florida kings being sold this year and another guy has claimed to have caught 17 in a weekend just a week or 2 ago. I'll go check where he said he found them maybe its the area to which you refer to.

Keith
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The sugarcane fields. Kings are almost nonexistent elsewhere in Florida. Apalachicola and the Everglades seem to have something of a population though.

You want kings? Try Loop Road near Monroe station... Try hammocks around Shark Valley.... Try all around Monument Lake....

Plus... Try Matheson Hammock, Fairchild tropical Gardens, and even the West End of Key Biscayne in the mangroves..

The sugar cane fields surrounding lake okeechobee have very strong populations of FL kings that seem to be thriving despite extraordinary collecting pressure. These populations seem to exist south to Everglades NP. Fragmented populations also exist in the Tampa and Apalachicola area and possibly Merrit Island NWR and near Jacksonville.

Other than that, kings are no longer found with any regular frequency from Okeechobee north to Osecola NF and east to the Atlantic. There may exist some small populations between Tampa and Apalachicola. Overall, Indigos seem to be much more common in much of the state (though that is not saying much), except for the regions previously mentioned. There is very little published research on kingsnakes anywhere, and Florida is no exception. See Tennant's "Field Guide to the Snakes of Florida", or the "Online Guide to the Snakes of Florida" (http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herpetology/fl-guide/onlineguide.htm) for more information.

Van

I certainly agree that the difference in size...either way...would have either snake in trouble! No doubt!

BUT, take an adult of each spp...heck take the biggest and baddest specimen of each spp you can find and throw em together...its no match! The indigo is far superior!!!!! It's not even a fight. The indigo adult gets too large and powerful for an adult Lampropeltis to deal with! Trust someone like me with both genera in my basement!!!!
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A.C.

www.gradeareptiles.com

kings are the kings ive owned both also amigo not eastern indigos but texas indigos im not downing indigos kings are simply that KINGS through evolution they are FAR superior to indigos,thus their larger range,broad range of temps,several ssp,method of hunting,constriction, and sorry but pound for pound forget length look at weight and the king will win every time they are simply that,,"the king",,,,,,,,thomas
all in fun bro,but lets keep it real.."long live the king"

How is it that this cage was mistaken for empty? How is it possible to not know what cage you keep your indigo in? How is it possible to not SEE this giant black snake in the cage before tossing in a kingsnake?
Good thing we had the camera ready.
All the best,
Perry

i truly hope that wasnt done intentionally

that pic has been on www.indigosnakes.com for over a year.
I won't mention the breeder, I'll let him step forward if he wants to, but he has not posted in some time.

I really was not intentional.

I think the story was the son or daugter of the breeder was helping him clean cages. He was cleaning the king cage and was looking for a temporary place to put it.

He thought the big wooden cage was empty...but it was an indigo cage. By the time it was discoverd what was going on, it was too late and he decided to grab his camera.

Maybe it was bad taste for me to post it.
I didn't mean to upset people.

Just one question... How did the king get into the indigo cage? Sounds kinda fishy... Was there some kind of hole in the cage? If so you would think that the indigo would have escaped before the king just happened to find it's way inside... Seems awfully convenient...

Eric Johnson

First off, to end this whole discussion on this pic. The picture is obviously photoshoped, and I could point out exactly why it's not real. The whole picture is filled with color smear marks. Especially where the King is constricting around the Indigo. Listen you did a great job on this pic, but dude, you gotta work more on your photoshop skills. Kings rule!

Ooooh sorry I forgot to add something. Why would you only upload just one pic of this? I know if I saw this occuring in front of my face I would take more then one picture at different angles. Post up more pictures of this act and then maybe I'll believe this. Other than that, this picture shows nothing.

I find it hard to believe that a five and a half foot cal king would escape from it's cage and just happen to wind up inside the cage of a six foot indigo... Like I said before, if the cal king found a hole to squeeze into you would think that the indigo would have escaped... Sounds like a bunch of b.s. to me... Either the cal king was deliberately set inside the cage with the indigo or this is just another of many unsubstantiated claims... But please, don't even try and tell me that a five and a half foot cal king would just wander up to and inside a cage with a six foot indigo inside... The indigo would have escaped already if the cage was that unsecured... Save the tall tales for the indigo forum...

Eric Johnson

n/p

That's pretty funny how he just happened to have his camera near by when he ACCIDENTALLY(doubt it)LET THE KING IN THE Indigo cage.I wonder if he'd be kind enough to sell me a bridge?

Mike

If you actually believe that was an accident I have a bridge to sell you.I mean c'mon......his camera ready in hand,looks premeditated to me!