Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm sick of going through the classifieds here and seeing things like this for example:

"I have a 4 foot nile monitor that I need to move to make room for other projects. It is feeding on mice, rats,and turkey. He has a typical nile attitude. He is priced at $145.00. There is no shipping on him for now, local sales only. Trades considered so let me know what you have."

These are living breathing animals, not "projects". "Oh, man! Bubba's 4' long and mean as hell. I know lets sell him. 'Cuz he aint so cute anymore...."

If people don't plan on mantaining an animal damn it don't buy it. I know there are cases where people can no longer provide for an animal and that's understandable. But just because your "bored" now so I'll dump the animal on the next schmo, c'mon. There's too many 3 to 4 foot monitors and iguanas out there. People need to educate themselves before making a purchase on that cute little 10" lizard at the pet store.

Glad to see you care so much. Most of those things you mentioned are just sales pitches, so don't take them all to heart.

It's a cruel world out there so strap in if you plan on riding long.

I've been strapped for a long time. I've seen more in my quarter century here than most will in a liftime.
My point is I'm sick of seeing all these animals being discarded after getting to big, too mean etc. If you don't think that this is a problem, call your local animal shelter or rescue or just take a look here or elsewhere online.
I won't be happy until there are restrictions in place on the sell and trade of these animals. I think it's a joke when the average joe off the street can spend $20 on Nile monitor. I also don't expect alot of people to understand or care i.e. your sarcasm.

I agree about the callous attitude many people have about animals in general. It seems the lower the price of the animal, the less they care. Now don't get me wrong, there are many people who would buy a .10 gold fish and give it the best care in the world, but your reference to people considering animals "projects", or disposable, is all too true. I have been involved with animals my whole life and have seen both the good and bad sides of people. Education is the key. I also think that pet shops should not routinely sell monitors, especially niles and savs which seem to end up in rescue. I am persona non gratis at many pet shops because I have (or at least think I have) talked many people out of buying pet store monitors when I told them of the potential size of those cute babies, space needed and costs of properly caring for them. We can't save the world but might make a difference for one animal.

Pam

First, you want restrictions, no worries the government would will ban keeping any monitor over 5 inches long.(the government can never seem to get anything right, they meant 5 feet, but goofed)

Whats appaulling to me is thats the only thing that bothers you about the classifieds, What about this stuff?

1. importers use CB. for ALL wild caught babies.
a. they never have proof
b. the only group of people in the world without a digi
cam are importers.
c. How could all of them not have cameras?
d. as a monitor breeder, our monitors hatch all times
times of the year, yet importers always hatch their
Savs(all species) at the exact same time as the
babies are imported?
e. captive hatched babies with parasites, Hmm,?????
2. Perfect in every way,
a. it looks like a raisen(sultana)
b. perfect has all toes and tailtip,
missing eyes and half its skin.
c. a nile thats three years old and all of 20 inches.
d. feeding on dogfood?????????perfect?

3. Advertising monitors that are not in the country.
a. Send me the money now.
b. Whoops wrong species!!
c. eight months later.
4. Advertising other peoples monitors
a. I have seen my animals advertised on kingsnake, by
others, while they were still here!

Oh well you get the picture, there are lots of problems with our budding new hobby/business. But instead of whining about it, we should do something about it. I am responsible for the small monitors that are now availible(people now have a choice), what have you done? Remember to be very careful about restrictions, you never know who is making them and what their agenda is. FR

FR.....I don't quite understand the exact point that you were trying to make. And thanks for typing all that for me, because all that pisses me off too.

What I find apauling is that instead of undertanding what I meant, you decided to nitpick and ask why I didn't list a hundred other asinine things that people list in the classifieds. My point FR is not what people say to sell the animal's but WHY they sell them, WHY they get rid of them.

"But instead of whining about it, we should do something about it. I am responsible for the small monitors that are now availible(people now have a choice), what have you done?"

What have I done? I adopted a peachthroat from Mid-Michigan Reptile Rescue, I bought a 17" Sav from a crackhead who had him living on a porch in a 20 gallon tank in September in maggot filled feces.....I also don't understand why I'm justifying myself to you.

What have you done? Stop whining about my oppinions and do something. I assume you breed monitors, so that must be why you have beef with my comment.

If the gov. places restrictions on lizards over 5,10 inches, whatever you said, so be it. People should need permits to own a 6' long reptile anyway. If you don't think so then I guess you've just missed my point completely.

np

1) Join Green Peace

2) Get on Nader's Ticket

3) Take pics of your monitors now with identifying permanent something or other and then show them to us while they are still in your hands in 5 years.

You really have no idea, at all. I am also 25, don't know crap, but as far as monitors go, probably have more experience than you do.

You rant about somebody taking care of a nile to the point of 4 feet (have you ever done that?) and then selling the monitor. Or he could have dropped it off at a shelter, or let it go like many do every day.

Odatria (thats dwarf monitors to you) should have permits, or restrictions? So, my 16 inch ackie or 20 inch kimberly, or 12 inch pilbara or whatever should have restrictions? They are adults. If you think so, you are the crack head.

My thoughts,

andrew

It's never gonna happen. we can do what we can do , but people will ALWAYS buy animals without being fully prepared for the adult size or whatever. And they will sell it to someone else.
I breed and sell all kinds of animals. I have reptiles over 5 ft.
I dont want to say that I sell my animals for too low of prices. But I'm also not going to over pirce them either. That would just make me stupid.
No one can KNOW what will happen to the animal after they sell it to someone. Wether you sell it for .10 or 1,000 wont determine what happens later on.
Yes, it is upsetting to see so many like this. But it will always be that way. Until this is no longer a FREE Country.
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Just Hatched, growing fast!
Http://www.Nifty-Critters.com

I guess that's just it- we're free to make all sorts of mistakes. It's just sucky when an animal or a person has to suffer because of them. I'm more oriented on trying to fix these problem from the demand side (educating consumers, making people want to take care of their pets) than from the demand side (restricions on sales and keeping). But both have their place to a point.
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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

I totally agree with Bsolo. There are too many people that buy animals from pet stores just because they're cute without doing any planning for them. I did the same when I was young. But it's really sad when people neglect the animal becuase they don't know how or can't take care of it.
I live in a college town and there is a girl across the street from me who is real dumb and annoying and a constant partier. She purchased and american aligator from a local pet store a couple month ago because it was "cute." She has it in a 20 gallon tank of water. I asked her what she planned to do with it when it got bigger and she said she didn't know and thought about letting it go! It just makes me sick.
I'm thinking about rescuing it from her and but I don't want to get stuck with it either. Anybody want an aligator?

lol u stealing it have fun any way im not saying think its right but that is how i got into lizards of course i never got rid of them but ya....

"I've seen more in my quarter century here than most will in a liftime."

Well with that statement I can see you know it all already so why even post? Also and no wonder why you are not bothered if uncel sam governs us until we can only eat sleep and drink when he says we can and where. I myself do not like that mentality.

You anger is venting at the wrong people, we on this forum already take care of our animals, or new people have come to learn.

Your free to express yourself, but why not vent that in the right direction? If you vent smoke back into the kitchen pretty soon you can tsee anything clearly. So why dont you redirect that someplace that it can be useful?

There is a big picture to look at when talking about this subject. Way to big to make a difference by just yelling, or making rules. Why dont you try educating others that do not know?? That is the key, the key is not start a new rescue, rescue another animal. Thats just apart of the equation, why not be the Answer to it instead?

So go educate someone about animals after all that is what most of use do here everyday.

Not to mention that Jody has probably taken in more rejected monitors than youve seen in "your quarter century" upheaval.

Putting restrictions on owning reptiles is a big load of crap from some idealistic, emotional and naive person such as yourself trying to find some purpose in life.

The only ones that will get screwed will be us, the keepers of these monitors and reptiles.

Thats the downside that comes with the pet trade. Look at all the dogs that are euthaniszed, abused and neglected every day. Now what should we outlaw dogs too?? or put a bunch of restrictions and get the government involved to the point that they take over.

Please go push your PETA crap to the iguana forum. I know your intentions are in the right place, but youre not thinking further than two steps ahead.

Have you ever dealt with FWC??

I commend Jody for taken in rejected monitors. As far as my upheavel is concerned, it was about LIFE and not owning a monitor. Some of you people are full of contradictions it's not funny. You pat yourselves on the back for taking care of monitors yet you say damn anyone who wants restrictions taken to treat the animals with some dignity so that the average person cannot buy one on a whim. So to hell with the all the animals that get killed and starve to death just so you can add another to your collection.

"Putting restrictions on owning reptiles is a big load of crap from some idealistic, emotional and naive person such as yourself trying to find some purpose in life." As far as the personal attack. What do you know about me? Not a damn thing. As for the naivety of things apparently your the naive one who cannot see the big picture when it comes to these animals. I think you need to find a purpose in life aside from trying to be funny on the internet. Besides educating people it seems that some here need the education just because you own a monitor does not mean that there shouldn't be something done. You think that the only people reading these forums are people asking for the right temps to use. I don't. I'm voicing my opinion so that maybe some will say,"damn he's right, maybe I shouldn't buy that sav or nile at Petsmart."

I think that you people need to get over that big brother bogeyman mentality.

Care to explain just how restrictions on owning a monitor would hurt the hobby? A permit to own an indigo snake only costs $25, is that too much trouble? Is that unjust. Maybe you think that it's ok to ship 50 lizards over on a boat so that maybe 10 or 15 will live just so you save a $100, yeah that's real good for the hobby.

Yeah, I don't know a thing about you except the way you come across. You had a tough LIFE and you know better than everyone else and ahh thats right youre gonna save the monitors.

Ok now explain to me how exactly is a permit required for 6' monitors or whatever going to "save the monitors"? Is it monitors that will become 6 ' or the ones that already are?

Mr. Solo I think you have very admirable intentions we all want to save the monitors some way some how. But we have to be realistic here about saving the monitors. Youre talking about savannahs and nile monitors at 25 bucks each correct?

READ Daniel Bennett's book on Savannah monitors it clearly states that the collecting does not affect wild populations. Why dont we invest this energy on some real conservation and try and salvage the very few land some of the indo species have left. Or how about we focus on the practice of captive breeding of these threatened species. Or better yet lets just ban the importation of indo species so that in 10 yrs time we can look at some prasinus pictures as the only way we can see prasinus and other species with similar problems?

And if we do manage to get some good captive breeding going in the states like they do in Europe if someone wants to own a monitor they have to pay some skrilla to have them as a pet. Like it was mentioned in previous post lets put permits up on people who own Birds, Dogs, Cats, etc.... all these animals get neglected all the time. Maybe watch some of those animal cop shows on the animal planet channel for some visual evidence of these other species being neglected. (Maybe youre a visual learner and this will help)

Ra Tzu you seem like a pretty opinionated fella. My statements were merely replies. But, if you know better than me, enlighten me. And what exactly is your problem with my opinion anyway? Why did it get your panties in a bunch? I don't understand your need to try and take shots at me, but if it makes you feel better, by all means, go for it.

I love how everything I said got taken out of context. I never once said anything about banning anything, I never once said anything about purchasing animals affecting the numbers of wild animals. All I said was people need to be educated and the animals should be treated with respect and curiously that offended a few of you.

Someone with opinions like mine must really bother people that have nothing better to do and just flame about someone having an opposing view. If you want to breed animals or import animals then sell them indiscrimantly to anyone who will purchase them, and if that doesn't bother you fine, you must not have much of a concience. Instead of giving me a counterpoint to what I said you guys tried to insult me. Instead of an intelligent discussion you guys try and match wits. That's fine and all but what did we really acomplish? Not much.

I suggested the permits as a way to lower the amount of people who just buy the animals on a whim, allowing some time for research, education, etc. Now tell me that doesn't make sense. The permits would be for the ones that would reach and are 6' but on second thought your right 6' is silly I say start the permits with 3'.

I'm not much of a "visual learner". I like to read. As for the other animals that are often neglected. I'm well aware of the situation. I didn't deny the dillema concerning dogs and cats. But I didn't feel the need to discuss them, seeing as this is after all the "Monitors" forum, correct me if I'm wrong. Why the comparison to the other animals anyway? That's apples and oranges. Is that proving a point, let's mistreat the reptiles because they do it to dogs....I'm not sure if that's what you were getting at, that's what it seemed. Or maybe it was why worry about reptiles when there is a cat problem to worry about. I've seen Animal Cops, in fact they film it here in Detroit. We have a big pitbull problem, but again that's beside the point. Why should I say anything about those animals when my point was about monitors. You people can misconstrued and take my words and twist them if you like because my words are falling on deaf ears, or blind eyes as this is typed.

This discussion is like a dog chasing his tail. I say "let's get some retrictions on reptiles" you say "why, they don't have restrictions on dog, cats and birds." But your not giving me a valid reason why restrictions(not banning) would be a bad decision for the purchase of a reptile like a monitor.

Valid points you just made and you asked why is it bad that we put restrictions on reptiles. well if we put restrictions on reptiles that is basically saying ban them. I know it does not mean the same banning and restricting, but guess what if state and federal officials (if it ever escalates to those useless bastards) they will take as " oh there is a problem with reptiles in so and so city they are having to put restrictions on the animals because they are bad animals they are harmful and they transmit disease etc....." I know this is not what youre saying, but this is exactly what they would say.

People are looking for a reason to ban what we love on this forum which is monitors and if we give them any reasonable doubt to do so believe me they will take full advantage of it. We use the dog and cat examples because these are animals that have been around in the pet trade long before reptiles were and yet there are more cases of abuse and more deadly attacks by pitbulls than there of nile monitors in the u.s. so why not have restrictions on pitbull keepers too. Apples oranges theyre all fruits pitbulls monitors they are all pets.

How about this instead kids 18 yrs or younger cant go home get their lawnmower allowance to buy a sav or nile monitor. An adult legal guardian must accompany the child and ok the purchase? I think that sounds better than forcing experienced keepers to pay permit fees for something they are experienced i think that makes a hell of alot more sense. I see your point and there will always be some a hole that will abuse,but thats from the lack of knowledge that some people have before the purchase and most of these schmoes fall in the teen ager age group.

This is why we have this forum and others like it to educate eachother on monitor husbandry. Importers and wholesalers sell the animals, but it is our responsibility as keepers to provide the right resources for the animals because we picked them, they didnt pick us.

They are one of the animals I have tried to help out. They are banned in certain cities, they do have restrictions.

It's been a hard road to stop them from total banning on them.

Trust me you do not want the samethings governing your other pets. if you don't personally mind that person down the street that knows what he is doing with that animal well he will mind.

So please also think of others rights here and not just your own.

Jody are you referring to me bro I messed up if you are i meant to say the pits that are bred to do the bad S%^t that they are being villainized for. I have a pit and hes a big sweetheart its all about the way you educate yourself. I know they are starting to get banned my family is from coral gables im in ca and my cousins pit got yanked out of his house just because and I got my little guy from his bloodlines. It is sh!tty how some a holes are ruinning this for us.

By the way how are those cummingi's doing

Yeah, that'd be you I was talking to.

I hear ya some are not meant to be with people, but in the long run it wasn't there fault. Not to metnion most pits don't even look like pits anymore.

But it sure drives me nuts when they start bugging me about my dog's when my dog's have nothing to do with the other ones.

My cumingi's are doing fine, along with the many many other monitors.

I lucked out with my pit i got him out of fl last winter when I brought him back as a pup. Im also lucky here in ca there are no bans or permits required in the bay area. Both of neighbors have dogs one has a pit and they get along great. Again its sad that people breed certain traits, because they are sweet dogs.

In terms of cumingis have you seen any breeding activity? Saw some on another site from sweden I think it was stunning animals want some cb's but hell have not seen any.

Yeah have seenn breeding but no eggs after it. Which is odd when she didn't have the male she layed to clutches. Now she is getting some and nothing go figure. But hey I just got the male last year so hopefully this year will work out.

Maybe you need to re-read until you understand what we meant.

I never had a problem with you wanting to protect animals from harm. I never said anything against it. I merely gave my opinions on your post. I was trying to talk to you. But you keep repeating yourself. Then you started discussions to 3 different people in 1 post. It is hard to keep track of who your talking to.

Here in FL. you have to have a license to own reptiles pets or for sale. The pet license is free last I checked. So in a sense it is governed. Now what your saying is there should be a screening of everyone to see who gets what?? Why shouldn't that be the sellers responsability instead of the government? When are people going to take matters or decisions into there own hands, why put them on someone elses shoulders and have them regulate you? I say regulate yourself.

I make sure the people I sell too know what there getting and know that at anytime they may ask me questions. I educate people as often as I can. This is what I do and will keep on doing.

Voicing your opinion in an educated way may help your cause. I responded to you the way I did at first because of how you come across. Basically loud, obnoxious, and oppinionated.

You do have some good thoughts, and your going the right path. Your just a little side tracked and need to do some fine tuning.

You may not of said ban reptiles, but once you throw anything up in the air about governing. Well just look around at other laws they can be taken to the extreme. As someone that has helped fight for the rights to keep animals, I have seen the effects of a good idea gone bad.

Just becareful what you wish for, word it right or your words may be twisted into something you didn't wish for at all.

np

Like I said the post was a rant. A few people here took what I said personal. And sorry for not posting seperately, everyone that responded to what I said had the same opinion.

If I'm right agree with me, if I'm wrong tell me why, but let's not get personal. We may have gotten off the subject a little bit anyway, my main concern was just for people being educated and stop considering these animals disposable.

Haha, look whos talking about opinionated. You rescued a peachthroat last week and you've already elected yourself as the spokespersoncrusader for passing laws and permits for the keeping of monitors.Incredible! How are you keeping your monitors? Lets see what your providing for them. You might be just keeping it barely alive.

As far as name calling and cheap shots, you threw a bunch of them at me in your last post, so don't get your panties in a bunch when I call you a hypocrite.

The reason I don't believe in your idea for a permit to keep is whos going to decide who is qualified or not? YOU? Some wildlife official? A politician? What kind of regulations are they going to pass when it finally goes through? It might change by the time its finalized. Whose to know where this is going to lead? I already have a permit to keep certain wildlife, btw.

For example they passed a law on pitbulls in South Florida a bunch of years ago, that you had to keep a $100,000 liability insurance on each pitbull you owned. Some years later some whore loving politician jumped on the bandwagon and decided to pass a law absolutely banning all pitbulls in 2 counties.Apples to oranges or whatever, its called an example.

But really whats the point in me convincing you otherwise, since you're right.

Ra, your the one who took this to a personal level, infact when you did when the discussion didn't concern you. You replied when you shouldn't have, remember:

"Not to mention that Jody has probably taken in more rejected monitors than youve seen in "your quarter century" upheaval.

Putting restrictions on owning reptiles is a big load of crap from some idealistic, emotional and naive person such as yourself trying to find some purpose in life."

Was I not supposed to respond? Didn't anyone ever teach you not to talk out of turn? I guess you must consider yourself the comedian of the form.

"But really whats the point in me convincing you otherwise, since you're right."

I never said I was right, never. But it's nice to see after your little fit you think I am.

Hey BSolo, I didn't think you were right, I was being sarcastic.
BTW Since you like to copy and paste peoples "personal" replies, thought I'd be a comedian and paste some of yours. I know im out of turn but this is an open forum. Enjoy!

"These are living breathing animals, not "projects". "Oh, man! Bubba's 4' long and mean as hell. I know lets sell him. 'Cuz he aint so cute anymore...."

"People need to educate themselves before making a purchase on that cute little 10" lizard at the pet store."

"I've been strapped for a long time.I've seen more in my quarter century here than most will in a liftime."

"My point is I'm sick of seeing all these animals being discarded after
getting to big, too mean etc. If you don't think that this is a problem
, call your local animal shelter or rescue or just take a look here or elsewhere online."

"My point FR is not what people say to sell the animal's but WHY they sell them, WHY they get rid of them."

"If the gov. places restrictions on lizards over 5,10 inches, whatever you said, so be it. People should need permits to own a 6' long reptile anyway. If you don't think so then I guess you've just missed my point completely."

"I won't be happy until there are restrictions in place on the sell and trade of these animals."

"I think it's a joke when the average joe off the street can spend $20 on Nile monitor."

"I also don't expect alot of people to understand or care i.e. your sarcasm."

"FR.....I don't quite understand the exact point that you were trying to make. And thanks for typing all that for me, because all that pisses me off too."

"I also don't understand why I'm justifying myself to you."

"As far as my upheavel is concerned, it was about LIFE and not owning a monitor."

"Some of you people are full of contradictions it's not funny."

"What I find apauling is that instead of undertanding what I meant, you decided to nitpick and ask why I didn't list a hundred other asinine things that people list in the classifieds"

"What have you done? Stop whining about my oppinions and do something. I assume you breed monitors, so that must be why you have beef with my comment."

"I think that you people need to get over that big brother bogeyman mentality."

"Maybe you think that it's ok to ship 50 lizards over on a boat so that maybe 10 or 15 will live just so you save a $100,
yeah that's real good for the hobby."

"Ra Tzu you seem like a pretty opinionated fella"

"I never once said anything about purchasing animals affecting the numbers of wild animals"

"All I said was people need to be educated and the animals should be treated with respect and curiously that offended a few of you."

"Someone with opinions like mine must really bother people that have nothing better to do and just flame about someone having an opposing view."

"If you want to breed animals or import animals then sell them indiscrimantly to anyone who will purchase them, and if that doesn't bother you fine, you must not have much of a concience."

"Instead of giving me a counterpoint to what I said you guys tried to insult me. Instead of an intelligent discussion you guys try and match wits. That's fine and all but what did we really acomplish? Not much. "

"Now tell me that doesn't make sense. The permits would be for the ones that would reach and are 6' but on second thought your right 6' is silly I say start the permits with 3'."

"I'm not much of a "visual learner". I like to read."

"Why the comparison to the other animals anyway? That's apples and oranges. Is that proving a point, let's mistreat the reptiles because they do it to dogs...."

"We have a big pitbull problem, but again that's beside the point. Why should I say anything about those animals when my point was about monitors."

"You people can misconstrued and take my words and twist them if you like because my words are falling on deaf ears, or blind eyes as this is typed."

"This discussion is like a dog chasing his tail. I say "let's get some retrictions on reptiles" you say "why, they don't have restrictions on dog, cats and birds"

"But your not giving me a valid reason why restrictions(not banning) would be a bad decision for the purchase of a reptile like a monitor."

"Didn't anyone ever teach you not to talk out of turn? I guess you must consider yourself the comedian of the form"

"Did I not state this is a "rant"??"

"Like I said the post was a rant."

"A few people here took what I said personal."

"If I'm right agree with me, if I'm wrong tell me why, but let's not get personal."

"We may have gotten off the subject a little bit anyway, my main concern was just for people being educated and stop considering these animals disposable."

Hey Rat you earned the class clown award for this one ha ha ha ha ha ...............hey dude how are your crosses doing ? remember how mine was not eating dude she i think its a girl is freakin 180 ed on me and is doing great ill post some pics soon keep that comedy coming though some of us need it to pull the sticks out of our asses

later dude

Haha, hey Alex. Glad to see you're cross is doing good. Did you finally have to seperate them? I have presumably a 2.1 but not positive on it yet. Just this last week I was finally able to pair up the one that wasnt getting along, so now, I can let them be. Yeah man, show some pics of them, those guys were smoking as babies, must be looking killer now.

Hey Bro ya I did have to seperate them for like 2 weeks the one that was not doing so well got the appetite and weight back with a fattnening diet of waxworms and then i got them together again no problems I have 3 now two but dont know the sexes yet Im gonna try and figure out how to put some pics on here i dont think theyre sexable yet.

later nice cross by the way

See what I mean, you take my words out of context and try to twist them. You took fragments of everthing I said and pasted them that's cute. Like I said the comedian of the forum. You pasted my responses your a clever guy!

Here is the definition of rant for those that are having trouble understanding.

rant (rnt)
v. rant·ed, rant·ing, rants
v. intr.

To speak or write in a angry or violent manner; rave.

n.
Violent or extravagant speech or writing.
A speech or piece of writing that incites anger or violence: “The vast majority [of teenagers logged onto the Internet] did not encounter recipes for pipe bombs or deranged rants about white supremacy” (Daniel Okrent).
Chiefly British. Wild or uproarious merriment.

He adopted (not rescued) the Peachie last year and went thru a fairly extensive process to prove his qualifications to adopt. We don't adopt animals out indescriminately. So many of these rescue animals have been passed around that we strive to place them in a home where they will stay forever.
And, before you question my ability to judge a good monitor keeper, I've not yet bred monitors since they've only become a real interest in the last two year, but I have successfully bred Tegus and Cyclura iguanas, and Jody trusted me enough to care for his male Croc monitor for a few months.

Maybe you should start giving these people psychological evaluations too, JK.

I had no intentions of bringing you up , or questioning your monitor keeping abilities, since mine are flawed and most of the time, I haven't a clue to whats going on. Then again, we're not trying to shove our beliefs down peoples throats and making grandiose proposals on what we should be doing, or the govt. should be doing, etc. etc.Best of luck with your endeavors

I have pitbulls. I absolutely love how it is always pitbulls that are brought up with the whole "dog problem" thing! Yes, people use pits for dog fights and drug dogs and blah, blah, blah....They also use shepperds and lots of other dogs too. Most so called "pitbulls" now days are not even full bred, in fact most are maybe 1/4 pit if at all. It's just funny to me that they are always brought up in a "problem" situation. Never, "Oh they are great with kids" or "oh, they are great companion dogs" or "damn they are intelligent". And in my experience people that bring them up in "problem" situations are usually also the ones that help to fuel their bad reputations.
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JS

"It's funny how from simple things, the best things begin."

Hell, what don't you have? What's next a giraffe? Hehe

Yeah the "pitbull problem", thats the type. Plus once their banned or restricted, it then becomes more glamorous and more attractive to the thug type as well.The macho tough dog BS.
The media and mostly people that haven't a clue about them, are the ones that love to stir up this crap. Funny how almost anyone that owns them or has owned them, views these people as laughable. Once you've had them, you become educated to their true nature.

np
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JS

"It's funny how from simple things, the best things begin."

we have a licensing system for keeping reptiles where I live and it hasn't mysteriously turned into an all out ban. Quite the opposite, in fact, for many of the species now legal and available under license were illegal to keep before the licensing system was introduced. One such species is the very species of monitor I keep. I decided to get back into keeping reptiles when this species became legal.

The way the licensing system works is that there is a basic license for common, easy to keep species of reptiles and a range of more advanced licenses for rarer or potentially dangerous animals (such as large monitors) and venomous snakes. The basic license is very easy to get, just send your money in and wait to get it in the post, but because you need the license before you can get the reptile this prevents impulse buys. All reptiles kept here are natives and (in my state) must be captive bred. You can't buy them in petshops, either (in this state), which also reduces the chance of impulse buys. To get the first level of advanced license, you must be over 18 and have had a basic license for at least two years.

Of course there will always be people rorting the system, but for the most part I feel it protects our native reptiles and protects the hobby.

Before any of you start posting about gun laws and the 'right to bear arms' (or, as one person put it, the "right to bare arms" this is a discussion about keeping reptiles, not guns, and I am not going to enter into any discussion about gun laws.

Hey DK,

Here in FL. there are already laws governing reptiles and other animals. You already need to get permits to own them.

Maybe thats where I messed up I always forget the rest of the U.S. isn't FL. Well it should be it is nice and warm here hahaha

You dont need a permit to own eastern indigo. You just need that permit to take them arcoss state lines.

This is Jane from Mid Michigan Reptile Rescue. I can see your point and don't understand how this took off as a conservation issue or anything similar. What you were trying to point out is that herps such as iguanas, and now much more commonly, Savs and Niles, are treated as disposable pets. The initial investment is so minute that not much thought or care is given to proper husbandry or what will become of the animal when the owner is tired of it. My mentality comes from countless calls to "come see this lizard because it's gonna die soon if something isn't done about it", or "it's just gotten too big and mean and I'm afraid for my kid's safety". Better yet, "I was told I could keep it in a 30 gallon tank forever".
I don't think I can agree that government regulation is the answer. I do agree that education is a big key. That's why I'm out there several times a month at herps shows and outreach programs, in classrooms and scout meetings, talking about which reptiles make suitable pets for the average Joe and trying to find more then adequate adoptive homes for the 2+ dozen Green Iguanas, 5 Savs, 2 Niles, and many large boids that we are currently caring for. That's why we are constantly trying to convince people to buy captive bred instead of that skinny, tick infested baby Ball Python or bitten up baby Sav in a tank of 100. Better yet, pay a modest adoption fee and get an animal that is vet checked and as healthy as it can be. Maybe if they invest a little more hard earned cash for the animal it will seem like an investment, not a passing fancy.
Please drop me an email and let me know how the Peachie is doing. Don't lose your passion for the animals that are mistreated or neglected.

n/p

that you wanted to post a ranting opinionated thread and not receive anyone else's opinion in return. Hmmmm......thought that's what forums were for. But I guess I'm wrong, I guess it's for getting belligerent when someone VERY SLIGHTY disagrees with how you want to go about helping with monitor rescues.
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JS

"It's funny how from simple things, the best things begin."