Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i got a 13 month old python in the mail today. i will weigh it tomorrow but im guessing it is about 250 grams.

my question is, can i 13 month old ball be so light and survive? did i get a year old ball python or did i get ripped off?

thanks
-z

For me if I was expecting to get a yearling and got a 250g bp I would feel like I got ripped off irregardless of whether it really is a yearling or not. I have three females I hatched out this last Aug and all three are over 600g no problem. Did you ask for weight before buying? If not, now you know that it is a good idea.

Ben

the guy didnt have a scale but he said she was "healthy as a horse" eating mice weekly past 7 mos and small rats the past 2 months. so the exact weight didnt seem like a big deal. to tell you the truth i dont think theres any way she could take down a small rat. im going to get pics and her exact weight and post them. the seller did not want to refund my money even though i offered to pay shipping back to him.

IMO, thats just a bit light. My babies that were hatched last May, comming up on not quite 10 months, are all between 250 and 300. They could easily be more, but I take a less aggressive feeding approach with my babies. They get 1 small mouse every week to 10 days. Still though, my snakes aren't skinny. The robust, fat babies. I beleive that a solid, slow foundation is much better than power feeding over the firt year of the snakes life. I increase to larger, more frequent meals at about 1 year.
Joe Pociask

I think it's a bit light as well. Your gonna want to get a scale and check that wieght to be sure. Weights can be VERY variable, you can check out my average weight charts to see, but I still think your girl may be light, especially for ""healthy as a horse" eating mice weekly past 7 mos and small rats the past 2 months." I'll put a link to the individual records on the bottom, just click the link on that page to see the averages. But be sure to look at the individual charts as they tell the real story.

I've got 4 down in the 250 gram range, and 2 of those were removed from those charts. They are non-feeders that have never fed voluntarilly, only assist fed every couple weeks or so. They are ~

"Female 4" 03' female (obviously!) she is approx 10 months old, has been assist fed 18 times in that 10 months (2 small mouse hoppers per feed) (Good news!!~ Female 4 volunatrilly fed one mouse hopper on 2-8-04!! But has refused any other meals since then)She wieghs in at 242 grams on 2-14-04

"Winter" 03' male. He is approx 11 months old, has been assist fed 16 times in that 11 months (again~ two small mouse fuzzies) (more good news, Winter voluntarilly fed one small rat pup on 1-29-04 and has continued to voluntary feed!) He weighs in at 243 grams on 2-14-04.

"Female 10" 03' female. She is on the charts, she is a poor feeder but does feed voluntarily. Has been refused all feed since 11-12-03. She wieghs in at 242 grams on 2-14-04

"Female 18" 03' female. She is on the charts, she is a poor feeder but does feed voluntarily. Has been refused all feed since 10-22-03. She wieghs in at 262 grams on 2-14-04

Hope the numbers help some.
Average weight charts

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Cheryl Marchek
AKA JM
Check out my website at:
The Red Dragons Den

I have two yearlings and my female(right about a year) is only 150grams and my male (just past a year) is 250 grams... they both went off feed for the winter and are just now starting to eat again...

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1.1 ball pythons (Draco and Naga)
1.0 red tail boa (no name yet...still working on that)
0.0.1 Fire Belly Toad (Prince William)
coming soon (well not that soon...need more space and tanks first)
1.0 blood python (lestat)

I thought mine was a little underweight but I gotta tell ya' 150grams just seems waaaaaaaay underweight for a year old ball python. But what do I know, I've only had mine for 8 mos. I'd be willing to bet you get some more opinions supporting this thought, though.
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Rob Talkington

Something to consider when trying to determine if someone's snake is underweight or not is: when did the start eating and if they've ever gone off-feed and for how long. There may be some weight loss when a snake goes off-feed, but there's no weight gain. That's why there's no good answer to "how much should my snake weigh?".
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"Kira"

Aren't there extremes, though?

I mean, shouldn't even a 6 month old weigh at least 150grams? I guess I understand how there may be no good answer about how much a snake should weigh and weight loss will occur when going off feed but at what rate and when does it become so extreme that someone may want to examine their situation?

Is there a percentage of weight loss to begin to be concerned about when a snake goes off feed? From what I understand with other reptiles if there is a significant weight loss when going off feed it is an indication of a problem and not a normal event.

Nothing against domingo but I think there are averages and when something deviates from that average to that degree there may be a problem.

Awhile ago I was inquring as wether or not my snake was overweight or not and I was told 100-300 grams was not abnormal for a 4 month old snake. I was also told 50g a month was the rate for this person's reluctant eaters. If this snake were on the low end of the scale it would have had to be off feed for 9 of 12 months at one year old.

Aren't there some things that are just way far away from the average that are cause for concern?

If I'm wrong here please tell me again but I need to explain my thoughts so you would know where I'm coming from.
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Rob Talkington

Well, I know I've always heard that as long as there isn't significant weight loss when they go off feed then you're okay - but what 'significant weight loss' exactly is, I dunno.

I'm sure there are extremes, but I don't know what those are.

I mean, take my BP. When I got him he was 88 grams and 2 months old (got him from a petstore which brings in other issues). When he was 4 months old he weighed 99 grams - this is because for the first 2 months he would only eat every 10 days and I didn't try to feed him during shed (he seemed too jumpy and I didn't want to stress him). It kind of took us 2 months to get in a groove and for him to feel secure with me. Since then he eats great! But say after that 4 month mark he decided to stop eating - and it was a normal off feed with no weight loss for 2 months (which I would imagine there would be some weight loss even if just a little). That means he would still only be 99 grams (at most) at 6 months of age. So already my BP is under 150 grams at the 6 month mark.

I'm by no means an expert as I'm new to all this. I always see people ask for weight charts with guidelines on what their BPs should weigh - and no one can give them one. All we have to go on is what our own snakes weigh, and there are just so many variables (including the fact that some powerfeed/overfeed) that how do you really make such a chart? Some people go by the 'feed prey the size of the widest part of snake' rule, some feed 1.5 times their girth and some feed a percentage of body weight. Even those that feed a percentage of body weight all use different percentages. There was a poll done on another forum, and of those who feed a percentage - the percentage ranged from 10-40%.

Like I said, I'm sure there are extremes - but what are they? How much weight does a snake have to lose for it to be a cause for concern? We can't even agree on the size of prey to feed, how much to feed, how often to feed, how much time to allow between feedings.....Just like us I'm sure they all have different appetites, different metabolisms, etc.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. It's just always boggled my mind how someone can tell another person their snake is too small just by going by approxiamate age (because let's face it, we don't always know for sure their exact age). There just seems to be too much else to factor in.

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"Kira"

my post was in no way directed at anyone or meant to offend anyone. I was just trying to share my thoughts on the issue - and frustration. Sometimes it would be nice if things were more black and white.

Have a good one!
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"Kira"

I agree with what you are saying. What if the snake was a midget, right? I mean why is that not a possibility?

I ask you this, though. If you were to take a human baby that was born at 8 lbs. and in a year weighed 15 lbs. would you not be somewhat concerned as to if there were a problem? And even though you have ran tests it might turn out the baby is indeed a midget, which does not mean there is anything wrong with the baby, it's just small. None the less wouldn't you have still ran tests to be sure nothing was wrong simply because the weight is way off the charts of the average?

Add to that how do we know what the "normal" rate of growth for a baby is? Well, I believe it's based on an average of healthy babies and that "norm" probably changes from time to time depending on the average rate of growth of human babies as time progresses.

I beleive that's where you can come up with what is a normal growth rate for a ball python. Take the average weight at certain age intervals of healthy ball pythons and anything comparable to those readings should be considered as "normal". Any drastic deviations should be considered as abnormal and therefor may need to be examined.

I mean how else would you possible be able to make a judgement call on anything related to health if you didn't look at the factors this way?

I'm not saying if you do find a major deviation there must be something wrong I'm just saying it's probably a good idea to examine the situation to make sure there is not a problem.

And I'm really surprised no one in here decided to jump on the fact there is one year old female that weighs 150 grams. I've been reading this forum for 8 mos and have seen more comments on a one year old that weighs 250 grams. What's the deal? Does no one else in this forum think that's a little small and may be something to worry about?

Hell, when I posted my snake gained 150grams in 4 months I got more comments about that being a little slow for growth. I just don't get it in here sometimes. You try to learn then something comes at you at 90 degrees and makes you wonder what the hell is going on here. Sorry, I'm just frustrated now and I can't figure out why the hell nobody has commented on a 150gram year old female except me. What am I missing here???? Sorry this is so long!
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Rob Talkington

I'm in agreement with all that you said. I think the problem with it all is that no one has really kept a good long record (or conducted a study) on BP weights at varying ages. One hobbyist doing it with their half a dozen snakes is not enough. I'm talking about a large study...but then again I still keep asking (yet no one can give me proof) of where the whole 'feed prey as wide as the widest part of the snake' proof is.

I'm with you - where's all the more experienced keepers on this one? I'd be interested to hear what they think too.
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1.0 Ball Python
"Aragorn"

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0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

I took a second look at JM's weight chart posted earlier in this thread. It's interesting to see the big weight differences - and I believe these are about the same age snakes. At month 10 the largest snakes weighs twice as much as the smallest. Who's to say which is healthier and therefore is the more correct weight for the species tracked? One might say the smallest one is underweight, but one might also say the largest one is too big and that extra weight is bad for the heart and shortens life span....blah...blah...blah.

There just doesn't seem to be (unless someone can point me to it) the type of research, health and nutritional information available for snakes (and many other herps) as there are for dogs, cats - even humans. And even that information took a lot of time to get - and still changes.

I'm becoming inclined to go with the idea that if my BP is eating regularly (I currently offer 2 prey once a week and sometimes he only takes one), fecals come back good and he's acting 'normal'....that he's doing just fine FOR HIM.

I do agree that there have to be extremes and points where you should at least be concerned and possibly get a vet opinion - but again, I think you have to know more than weight and age to sometimes figure out when to be concerned. Based on some weights others have posted, my guy is on the right track and according to others too small. But he's been seen by 2 highly respected exotic vets (specializing in reptiles) in my area and they don't see a problem with his weight - that's because they asked what his feeding schedule, history and weights have been like.

8 month old @ 253grams (he ate the other day and hasn't defecated yet - I wait to weigh once he's ate and defecated. so he does actually weigh more now)
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Check Out My Albums

1.0 Ball Python
"Aragorn"

1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
"Gimli"

0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

My 07/03 male weighs in at 374g,that weight was taken 02/19/04
My other 03 male which I purchased at a show and was quite small weighs in at 335g, that weight was taken on the same date as well. They have both refused food only while in shed and they "graduated" up to rats sometime in Nov. 03' They are feeding on Small Rats 35-40g each. I use SnakeTracker to keep track of my feedings and shed and the like.

My female (born March 24th, 2003) was 107 grams at 7 weeks of age. In October she was 469 grams. In November she stopped feeding. She still hasn't started eating again and lost weight. She's now 395 grams.
So, she's 11 months old and hasn't eaten in 4 months. Still is her weight not bad. She's even just a little lighter that her brothers and sisters who haven't skipped a meal yet.
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1.1 Python regius (Monty Python & Cheetah)
1.1 Gerrhosaurus major (Falkor & Gizmo)
0.0.3 Cordylus tropidosternum (Rocco, Senna & Zoë)

I have a female that i got when she was probably 6-8 moths old at around 250-300 grams she was eatin adult mice,after one year of regular feedings she went up to aroung 650-700 and this year is pushing 1000 grams empty. Its amazing how fast they grow

Aaron