Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I THOUGHT I WOULD SHARE THEM ANYWAY. I INTRODUCED THIS MALE TWO WEEKS AGO AND HE WENT RIGHT TO BREEDING. THIS PIC WAS TAKEN ON MONDAY OF THIS WEEK. I WILL FOLLOW WITH A PIC OF HER OVULATING TODAY. I SURE WISH IT WERE THIS EASY WITH THESE DARN BOAS!

LOOKS LIKE SHE HAS JUST EATEN 2 LARGE RABBITS. THIS SAME PAIR PRODUCED LAST SEASON AND THE FEMALE IS MUCH LARGER THIS YEAR, SO I'M HOPING FOR A LARGER CLUTCH OF EGGS. THE MALE IS AN ALBINO GREEN BURMESE.

I am assuming those are Labryths? Am I correct?
Anyway, are they het for anyting? What are the genes here?

By the way, it is NOT a loaded question, Bill. I am actually interested in the snakes since that IS what we are all here for.

So are you ever going to respond to my 4 or 5 emails or the 4 messages I left you with my phone calls over the last 6 days or so?

You might be surprised if you talk to me, Bill. I will be home all day tomorrow except between 3:30pm and 6pm your time. Just give me until about noon your time if you would not mind as I am up late every night (10am my time). Thought we could get to know each other a bit if you stillc care tot alk like you asked on this very forum.

Be good!
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@cox.net

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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@cox.net

IN FROM WORK, ANOTHER LATE ONE. I AM HEADED OUT NOW TO CLEAN SOME CAGES AND TAKE SOME PICS FOR MY ADS TONIGHT. CALL ME IN ABOUT TWO HOURS. I WILL BE INSIDE BY THEN AND WILL BE UP LATE AS ALWAYS.

my cell (only long distance I have) is deader than a doornail. I forgot to charge it last night and just found it dead when I got your message.
Anyway, would you mind calling me?
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@cox.net

I obviously wouldn't know if they were het for anything. But, that's what they are on the outside. LOL!
John
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"To be the best..........You must lose your mind."

I was just wondering if they were DH or something. I know there are some cool projects with the burms these days (even triple hets), that is why I asked.
Nice looking snakes though.
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Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
BrianOakley@cox.net

Nothing personal, Bill, but why in the heck breed MORE burmese?? There are SOOOO many in rescue, you can't possibly tell me that each one is going to go to a home that will keep it long-term. While I realize that there are never guarantees of that with ANY animal, it's just so frustrating that there are more being bred when so few people can actually care for them properly... And with these being so large, the likelihood that it will stay with that person is incredibly small.

And, yes, I get albinos in all the time... and I've had green patternless, and labyrinth, and.... the list goes on. Just because someone spends more money than they have sense on something doesn't mean that they'll be willing to keep it when they finally meet their "Dream" person and he/she says "get rid of it"... or that when 16 year old Johnny grows up and goes to college that his Mom will give a hoot how much her kid paid for that snake.

Just curious, how many people do you know have had their Burmese for more than 10 years? 15? 20? How many do you know that got a burm after it got too big for someone else?

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Bonnie Keller
VA Reptile Rescue
www.vareptilerescue.org

I personally feel that a special permit should be required before you can keep a Burm or retic, or rock for that matter. Obtaining this permit would require you take a mental competency exam also. When the animals end up suffering, then the government needs to impose regulatations. People are way too short-sighted and 'impulse buys' should be eliminated, if at all possible.
- Eric

While I agree 100% it is irresponsible for MOST people to own Burms, and I personally NEVER HAVE myself, I dont know that we need the goverment getting involved.

Local laws generally should be used to handle this matter. I agree most larger cities should and likely will enact a "size limit" and I really have no problem with it. However I think in rural areas, on farms ect, if a person chooses to own one, soo be it.

The local size laws can be bad enough trust me, last thing we need is congress saying who can keep what, thats an invitation to disaster. In Omaha Nebraska (where I live) you are unable to keep any snake that can get over 8 ft. That rules out bcc for me, but I do understand the law. It keeps 16 year old kids from buying anacondas, retics, ect. But on the flip side, that same law makes it ILLEGAL to keep iquanas (another one I dont mind...lol) nile monitors, asian monitors, crock monitors, heck most monitors. It also used to be 6ft and as such Columbian redtails, and even some NATIVE snakes were off limits, due to size.

So its a slippery slope once they start to regulate, so I would be carefull what you ask for.

Back to Bonnies original post, I agree the value of a burm plays little in people "dumping them" when they get larger. If nothing else it actually harms the snake again in the long run.Perfect example: I had a guy 6 years ago call me with a couple of higher end burms (not exactly sure what they were anymore albino labs, something like that) anyways. Theese were 16 ft plus animals, proven breeders. He had well over a grand in the snakes, plus food and time. As such, he wanted money for the snakes he could no longer care for. He was trying as hard as he could to get ANYONE to pay him SOMETHING, or trade him, ect. You know he stopped paying the 10$ plus per rabbit to feed them, started skimping Why spend more money on animals hes looseing money on (I KNOW THIS IS HORRIBLE, BUT SADLY IT DOES HAPPEN).

So I too feel it is irresponsible to produce more burms, just my opinion.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

that happen to be connected to yours. Beautiful snakes by the way.

Very good posts. A responsible seller making sure the buyer knows what he is getting into and is prepared for it should also be a thought. I would hate to even think of my babies ending up getting starved of worse!
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Jeff
0.1 Wife
1.2 Kenyan Sand Boas
1.1 Smooth-Scaled Sand Boas
0.1 Doberman
1.0 Pitbull
1.0 Collie

.....while I wouldn't mind seeing some type of restriction on owning the larger boids (basically a cage size and experience restriction), I do NOT agree that we should expect the government to jump in because people are stupid. I think it's easy to get caught up in that way of thinking, but I have worked my tail off the last 2 years fighting legislation written by people who don't think about the unintended consequences of laws. I'm not about to encourage MORE laws that often end up getting changed at the last minute to reflect some animal rights group that infiltrates and influences the legislators. As much as I hate to say it, I'd rather there be no laws than laws written that can be easily twisted against us. (Man, I never thought I'd say that...)
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Bonnie Keller
VA Reptile Rescue
www.vareptilerescue.org

I agree, but there is no excuse for these animals suffering due to human ignorance. I don't understand how the average person can get a snake that will be 16 - 20 feet long, knowing that they wont be able to handle it alone, have to feed it large rabbits, and needs a huge space to live in. It is very alarming to see 10 - 15 year old kids walking around the reptile expo with the $40 wild-caught Burmese python they just bought from a irresponsible vender.
Now this is just a generalization, obviously not every Burm owner is irresponsible and unable to properly care for their large pythons, there are plenty of fine keepers (some possibly on this forum). Those people should have no problem proving to their local officials they are capable. I support them keeping and breeding their large constrictors, but they must be responsible enough to sell their CB babies to individuals who they think can properly care for them.
Take care,
Eric

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.......

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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

I personally wouldn't have a problem with it if you did. For that matter, I don't have a problem with HUMANELY disposing of iguanas, burms, etc... Heck, if my burms lay eggs (yep, I've got a rescued pair of albinos) they get incubated in the freezer, or in the monitor cages..

So, breed away!! Just don't let those eggs hatch!

Now, try to figure out if I'm joking or not....

--Bonnie Keller
VA Reptile Rescue

I have to agree...why breed so many more when there aren't good homes for all of what's already out there? The adult burm I now have (13 feet of female python that's only about 5-6 years old) is now on her 3rd owner (me). My best friend agreed to adopt her from a guy in North Carolina two years ago (because the snake was just too big for him now) and my other half & I drove her down there to pick the snake up. Everything was fine until my friend's 17 year old daughter turns up pregnant last year. The girl was emmancipated (sp?) however she came running to 'mom' for help when she found out. The baby is almost a year old now and the girl and her fella have split. It's looking like my friend will end up with custody of the child because neither of the parents can really raise it on their own. That said, the snake had to go when all this hit the fan (no place for an infant & a 13' python in the same household in our area as far as Child Services is concerned). We tried for months to find a home for the snake but couldn't GIVE her away...WITH A CAGE!!! I built a sturdier cage out at my mom's (mom's conditions on keeping the snake there) and told my friend I'd take the snake since we couldn't find her a home after several months of trying. The ONLY reason I have this snake is to help out my best friend. I already had a yearling albino burm and she's the only one I wanted. I knew what I was getting into when I got my girl and I had had NO intention of ever getting another burm other than her...then I end up with my friend's normal. At the local show (NVRE), I see captive bred normal burms selling for $30-$40 each, albinos for $100 - rocks and retics don't go for much more than the albino burms. I want to scream when I see some teenager walking away with a burm, rock or retic. It's pretty much a given the snake will end up with someone else or dead before it's all over and done with. I'd love to be able to display my girl at these shows and say "this is what you're gonna have in just a few years"...and my girl is fed moderately! I don't want to see more legislation passed to restrict our ownership of reptiles, there's enough laws restricting us now without adding more. However I would love to see breeders take responsibility for their actions. Burms are a good money maker with large clutches of eggs from relatively easy breeders. At what point to we as a group say enough about making money and more about starting to have responsibility for the animals we produce?

Okay, off my soapbox. Sorry for the rant.
Raven