Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm trying to figure out some of the math in planning a small breeding project and would really appreciate your thoughts. I'd like to gather as many opinions, or guesses at specific prices for well established morphs like pastels, albinos and super pastels in 5 years....spring of 2009.

My current average for albino is:
$1300 baby males
$2700 baby females
$3500 baby pair

Current Pastel:
$1000 baby males
$2800 baby females
$3400 baby pairs

Current Supers:
$15000

My bests guesses for 2009 are:
Albino: $700-m $1500-f $2000-pair
Pastel: $500-m $1800-f $2000-pair
Super: $10,000-m $4000-f

My thoughts are that albinos will hold their value pretty well. Pastels will drop a bit, but will hold their value reasonably well. And that super pastel males will hold their value well, but the females will drop quite a bit.

I'm just stabbing in the dark here...which is why I'd really be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks for your time!

I'm very interested to know the sources that you have referenced in reaching your conclusion that hatchling male albino ball pythons are currently sold for an average price of $1300 (or did you mean $2300?).

well if you meant 1300 for a male albino I would much like to know who's got em for that price..lol

Your albino male figure is about a $1,000.00 too low. The morph market does change drastically every yr. and I have just done similar research because I am started a small breeding colony. I think if it is low budget the best bet is albinos and axanthics. These snakes have been in the game for 10 years and are still valued at $2,000-$3,000.00 dollars, I think they are pretty much at thier rock bottom pricing (meaning that you may see future depreciations of these morphs but only in the low $100 range). Plus with these snakes you can make snow balls, which up until now only a handful exist (I know the odds are 16:1 but it is worth a shot). 100% het. albino females are selling for $800 and the axanthics more than double that. If you take into consideration that the market will soon be flooded with co-dominant morphs, the prices on these will be dropping fast. The real money to be made is in new designer morphs: spider albino, spider super pastel, leustic, snows, etc.

Ps-I know this is off topic but check out the site I am working on. I am still trying to find breeding stock though now I am a little low on funds.
http://home.comcast.net/~dominicanthony/royalpythons.html
Thanks,
Dom

just wondering....u know how the albino morph is one of the oldest morphs in balls....and then prolly next was the axanthic??? my question is how come not so many axanthics r posted...is it because not that many r around or just not being sold??? is it cause the prices r still a little too high for alot of people to buy still?

Helluva nice albino ball you've got on your site.

Yeah, I messed something up there. Really $2300 is still a little on the low side...though I have seen them at $2200. I would say that$2800 is a closer guess at the average. That would raise the price/pair up to about $4500. My guesses at 2009 should also be changed to reflect my mistake. That's what I get for trying to think clearly at 4:30 am. Thank you.

Jeremy

I think $500 is generous for a 2009 pastel. I think they'll be down to $500 by 2006. We're already seeing pre-sales for $750. It's a dominant trait and the market will be easily flooded by 2009. That's 2 full generations away for BPs. Albinos may hold their value better being a recessive trait. Any money to be made in the BP market will be through new combinations and traits. If anyone is getting into the market on the older proven traits they should be doing it for the love of the hobby or the love of the animals. If you have $30,000 or so lying around to drop on a pair of Super Pastels so you can make all Super Pastels, chances are you either don't need the return on investment anyway or you're already a big time breeder. I've been considering getting into breeding for the traits that I think are attractive (pastel and ghost) and I've come to the conclusion that if I were to do it I shouldn't expect any return on investment. I should just do it because I enjoy BPs and believe they make great pets. If I can pay for my own pets in the process that'd be great. If I'm a wise businessman I can probably make some profit too. I'm not saying I don't think there's any money to be made in the older proven traits, but I hear alot of people getting overly excited about profits that aren't likely. I'm still gonna do it, but I'm not gonna bet the farm on it. I'll be prepared for the market to tank just like the stock market. I think you could make your money back and some profit on the animals you listed. I think Albino will still sell at respectable price. I think Pastels maybe down to $250 or so by 2009. If you buy a single male pastel for $1200 today and 4 female normals you could breed them for 2007. With an average clutch of 6 eggs thats 3 Pastels per clutch. That's 12 pastels per year till 2009. When you probably start to produce Super Pastels. So at $250 a piece thats $9000 from 2007 - 2009. That's over $7500 you made in 5 years. You're not making a living at it, but you're enjoying a nice hobby that pays for itself and then some. Those are my feelings on where the market will go. I'm sure there are those that disagree. I probably wrote more than you were asking for, but I too have been thinking about this for a awhile as well.

Rick

"I probably wrote more than you were asking for, but I too have been thinking about this for a awhile as well"

No, actually thank you for taking the time to write a well thought out response. Seeing how low you think the pastel market will drop, what do you think about super pastels? I was thinking males would still hold up pretty well compared to females, but i forgot that you can produce clutches of supers with a pair.

Thanks,
Jeremy

Wise words. I would breed normal ball pythons (and have in the past) even if there were no morphs to speak of. However, WHY NOT have the prospect of making money while doing something that you are going to do as a hobby anyway? This is why I purchased 2 male albino balls and 8 het females two years ago. It hasn't changed my lifestyle at all (I would easily have this many snakes anyway).

[qoute] My bests guesses for 2009 are:
Albino: $700-m $1500-f $2000-pair
Pastel: $500-m $1800-f $2000-pair
Super: $10,000-m [qoute]

I'm pretty sure we will be seeing that alot of these prices are pretty close to what you can get these animals for THIS SEASON.

Albinos are going to be $1500- $2000 a pop for 2004.
I have seen nice looking pastels for the same price you have listed above.
I have also seen female supers for as low as $10k

My point would be this, I feel that your prices are a wee bit on the high side for all but the albino males.

You missed the most important quote:

"I'm just stabbing in the dark here...which is why I'd really be interested in your thoughts."

So what are your guesses?
I did make a mistake on the albino. I don't know what I was thinking to come up with those figures. You see $10k female supers? Okay, is my guess for $4k for a female super in 5 years a bad guess then? --It is just a guess. What do you think the males will be worth in 2009?

As far as I can tell, my estimates for pastel may be a little on the optimistic side. It's okay if you think differently. In fact, I hope you do because I was just taking a "stab in the dark." But It'd be helpful if you could jot down your guesses.

Either way, have a great day!

I think your off on your albino prices - 1500 for a male this season. Sure there maybe some small timers "giving" them away but I think the majority of breeders won't be. Have to wait and see. My 2 cents.
BT

Where are you seeing pastel males for $500? I haven't seen an ugly one for $500 yet. My 2 cents - they will "some what" hold their value because of what you mix them with - same as ghost.
BT

It may be possible to get albinos at $1500 to $2000, but only if you're buying in quantity and/or buying from obscure breeders. The average listed price for albino balls in 2004 will remain greater than $2000.

True - thats what I said. I'm thinking average $2200. They will hold their value for along time. To many projects to mix with. When they do come down to $1000 I believe they will stay there for a long while. Look at the albino boa - still $1000! Opinions are just like a$$holes - everbodies got one. I just think Blinky is way off in his thinking.
BT

I just copied this entire thread, I will repost it in a few weeks after we all see $2000 albinos from one of the biggest Regius breeders in the US.

Maybe before you say I'm "way off" you should pick up your phone and call a few breeders that produce albinos and ask them what thier prices will be.

I attended a few shows last year, and EVERY show had albinos for $2000.

Glad you copied it. Now tell me how to call for the $500 pastels? $1500 - $2000 albinos, time will tell. Let me guess - next your going to tell me pieds for $2500, platiums for $3000. Like I said time will tell. How many albinos do you produce?
BT

I already got a quote from Bob Clark that he will be selling single 2004 albinos balls for $2500.

Thats what I have been saying! What gives with Blinky? Not trying to put him down I just don't agree with his prices. Sure there will be some "small breeders" selling for less. But $1500 - $2000 average from big boy breeders - doubt it. Where can can I find the $500 pastels he is talking about? I have $1500 burning a hole in my pocket - would love to get trio!
BT

Listen, instead of trying to put words in my mouth, recharge your phonics monkey and reread my earlier posts.

I'm not even gonna look because I know that I didnt quote female pastels at $500, that was for males, and to make it a little more interesting, I have now heard of them at $400.

And as far as albinos, I could give a crap less what you feel is "average" price, I was talking about what a great number of breeders will be selling them for.

Another thing, what the hell does me producing albinos have to do with what others charge?

I'm not even gonna look because I know that I didnt quote female pastels at $500, that was for males,

A trio couldn't consist of 3.0? That's weird.
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I was under the impression that trios were 1.2