Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I posted this to the cham forum (b/c that's where I always seem to be - LOL!) but thought I would get input from you, too...

I was picking up a few crix (.15 a piece! My order hasn’t come – ugh!) at the feed store that carries them. They also sell a few fish and lizards. There has been an anole in there for a long time and I have commented twice on its condition and enclosure - 10 gal. tank, a bowl of water, one fake skimpy plant, rock substrate and no where to hide or cool down (hot bright light over entire tank). Today there were two in there (I doubt that one was the one I had been seeing – he probably died). So I mentioned it again to the owner (!) and he said he’d “mention it” to the reptile guy. I couldn’t say more b/c I knew I was not in control and would probably lose it. I almost cried when I left the store – then I just got pissed.

Now, my dilemma…next week I am shipping my three anoles to FL to set them free. I am thinking of buying these two at the store and shipping them off with my three. I figure they are going anyway so it wouldn’t cost any more except the cost of the anoles.

I know the argument - if you buy, they will just get more and this will encourage them to carry them. I agree with this in theory but these poor things are miserable. So what I thought was that I would buy them and then send them a letter explaining why I bought them, what I did with them and include a good care sheet. I suppose my other option would be to just do the care sheet and hope for the best.

You may think this is too involved, but you have to understand that I live in semi-rural NH with 2 feed stores that I frequent, small town, etc. I go to a different feed store for most of cat and bird food but I have to go to this one occasionally.

My rationale is that my letter, etc. will have enough influence so that they will not carry them again or will keep them better – maybe knowing that I am checking them out. I am also thinking of having a friend call and inquire if they have lizards, what kind, how much, how do you take care of them etc. to see what they say. I don’t know, maybe I am just thinking with my heart right now so I turn to you to help me work this out.

I will listen to any one’s opinion, for or against, just don’t judge me.

Thanks, gang
lele
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

This is always a tough choice to make. You've started well by pointing out what they're doing wrong, and you can keep pointing it out. If you really want to get into it, call the local humane society or other animal welfare agency and tell them what you see. You might need to provide them with a caresheet, too, so they know what to look for if they go to check it out.

I know that you will do what you need to do, but I would encourage you NOT to buy the anoles, horrible as their situation is. As you said, it just supports the business and encourages them to do more of the same. And you're already using the OTHER supply store as much as you can. There may not be much more than that to do.

Some things to consider: If these anoles are already in a mess, being shipped somewhere won't be easier on them - the stress of it may kill them outright. Plus, if they are ill or weak, they become instant lunch as soon as they are released or are easily killed by species competition for territory or food. And there's also the question of introducing non-native parasites or illnesses into the wild populations.

This is my opinion, and I know you'll make the decision that's right for you. I understand how it is when actually faced with critters kept in horrid conditions. That's how I ended up with my first uro (big mistake, though I love her to death).

Good luck!
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Torey
1.1 Uromastyx Geyri (Joe and Arthur)
1.1 Anolis Carolinensis (Bowser and Leeloo)
1.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Bruce and Sheila)
1.0 Betta Splendens (Mr. Miagi)
0.0.2 Sunset Dwarf Gourami (Gimpy and Sideshow)
0.0.6 Bloodfin Tetras (including the one-eyed Captain Morgan)
0.0.1 False Spotted Corydoras (Spot)
1.1 Felis Domesticus (Roscolux and Jenny)

Well, you could call it a rescue, but, as you already suggested yourself, these lizards being purchased by you will just encourage them to provide more.

It's a sad affair but I wouldn't do it. You could just try and report them to local authorities, but unless they are breaking laws in your state, they may get away with their methods of husbandry.

Now, you did mention releasing some lizards-who are you having oversee this? Have they been tested for endoparasites? I hope where you are releasing them is suitable, sustainable habitat-if you have any questions, I'm in Florida, raise green anoles myself, and would be happy to assist you in any way I can.

I have really gone 'round and 'round with this one but as I have decided not to buy the other two (see post).

In answer to your questions about my release. My mother lives in Venice, FL and they have a nice piece of property with great habitat (and lots of anoles). As far as long term sustainability it is fine. I am very involved in wildlife habitat, endangered and introduced invasive species, local eco-systems and other conservation issues here in NH so I feel confident in my release decision. As for the release itself I have discussed the best part of the property for her to bring them and it will be just a matter of
opening their containers and letting them go. I asked that she pay careful attention to Jaida as she is my 'baby' (not a baby in age, just my special one). I have no concern that Jamaica (brown) and Jetta will do just fine. Jaida will be the last to go and I asked that she makes sure that she has scurried off.

As for health. I have had these since July (PetCo rescue - I know...) and they were checked out by my herp vet. We gave them a round of panacur (months ago) and there were/are no signs of parasites. They also all had a fecal done in November. My guess is that these were wc in FL (or elsewhere) shipped here, I rescued them, got them healthy (except for Jaida and I really think it was due to being housed with Jamaica. After being separated, Jaida and Jetta coexist well) and I am probably releasing them healthier than when they came in! LOL!

I haven't packed them up yet, but I have heat packs, containers, etc. all ready to go and will ship late today. Fortunately we are having temps of 50 here in NH so their quick trip overnight (will arrive before 12:00) should be OK. I will give them a good meal of repta-aid, time to bask, drink, etc. before I package them up. My $7 lizards will be getting a $35 express trip to a new home

If you have any other input or suggestions please let me know. Thanks

lele
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

Lele,

I think what you are doing sounds great. You've had the fecal done. You've researched the area to be certain it is sustainable habitat. What kind of habitat is in the area and are there any A. sagrei in Venice yet? A sagrei would put a damper on release efforts-competition seems to win in the end of an extended period of sympatric association. Have other greens been observed in the area you have selected?

Ugh Petco....yes I understand. I've rescued some from such places. Expos have lots of those potential rescues too.

"I am very involved in wildlife habitat, endangered and introduced invasive species, local eco-systems and other conservation issues here in NH so I feel confident in my release decision" You had said. My interest is peaked. Tell me a little about what organization(s) you are involved in, and what types of non-indigenous species do you have in NH? What ecosystems do you take most interest in?

I think what you are doing is quite noble of you. You are doing what is fair to benefit an exploited species. Please be certain to have the releaser (your mom?) take some pictures of them if possible and that of their habitat. Then publish their journey on turtleforum.com..... > Hope to see you there!

I really appreciate everyone's input here and on the cham forum. I have decided not to buy the other anoles but to do my best to "educate" them on the subject. b/c it is a local feed store in town that caters to semi-rural and rural areas (lots of farms, animals, etc.) and is certainly more tuned in to the community than a big chain store, I am hopeful on making progress. I actually do some nature education so I do have a place to begin and some experience on approaches. I will keep you posted.

lele

(I guess I'll be changing this list today )
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0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

I think you made a great decision to educate them