Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Okay, I'm going to stay as neutral as possible about the issue of whether venomoiding is right or wrong here. Of course I have my opinions on the subject, but that is not the point of this threat. I have been noticing that more, and more, and even more, here lately the ads in the venomous sections of these classifieds has been getting inundated for ads with venomoids. I opened the ads just a minute ago, and with the most ads I could fit on my screen, 8 our of 17 were in regards to venomoids. Again I will not pass judgement on them, however, I will say that I do not like skimming through ads for venomous animals, seeing one that sounds good and then seeing venomoid attached to it. Or better yet, seeing one that sounds good, and not seeing that it's a venomoid until I click on it. Since Kingsnake is obviously going to allow the sell of venomoids, what would be the harm in at least giving them their own section. It's pretty apparent, simply by watching the activity over the past few months, that it will not be long at all before they vastly outnumber the actual venomous snake ads in there. Why should I have a problem with this you might ask? Well, if I'm in the market for something, and I'm perusing the ads and every one I come across is a venomoid and is being sold for 5 to 10 times it's typical market value, I'm going to become quite dismayed. I don't care how badly I want or need an animal, I simply will not pay the outrageous asking price on these animals. I just wish that, for my sake, and probably for many others on here, they could be given a separate classifieds so that we wouldn't have to sift through them trying to find something we're looking for. Anyway, I welcome your comments here. I realize I haven't stayed perfectly neutral here, but I believe I've done a decent job as far as not attacking the issue, so I would appreciate the same in the responces. Thanks.
-Chance

It is no mystery about what my feelings are regarding venomoids, so I will refrain from voicing my opinion about that subject. I do think that you make some good points. Kingsnake.com obviously doesn't see anything morally wrong with these unlicensed practices and it does not appear that the selling of these animals through this website will be stopped anytime soon. Taking this into consideration I would like to see ALL venomoid sales (including all adds containing a mixture of venomous and venomoids)moved to a completely seperate classified section. It would be nice to not have to wade through the carnival side show adds like: SWEET VENOMOIDS!!!! DIRT CHEAP THIS WEEK ONLY!!!! SURGERY DONE 6 WHOLE WEEKS AGO AND DOING GREAT (great = still alive)!!!!! HEAD HARDLY EVEN CAVED IN!!!! FULL GLAND REMOVAL.....i think!!!! "PROFESSIONALLY" DONE!!!!

This is NOT a rant just stating my factual observations on this subject.

What ad had the venomoid in it that DIDN'T say "venomoid" on the header?
I didn't see it..Point me to it please.

I don't agree with venomoids either, however, if I choose not to advertise on a site that allows venomoids, then I won't advertise on there.

Kingsnake.com targets the largest audience with it's classifieds, and so purely as a business decision, I choose to advertise there.
But for the people who diss Kingsnake for allowing the advertising of venomoids, I suggest that they take there advertising somewhere else, along with their posts bashing kingsnake.com for allowing the ad's of venomoids.
However, this is a free country, and ALL opinions are allowed.

Kingsnake.com COULD (if they wanted) not allow posts that are negative and bash their decisions to allow "venomoid" advertising.
My 2 cents.

Randal Berry

"Kingsnake could not allow posts bashing their decisions".
It's true, they deleted my response to this thread, which just tells me that I was EXACTLY RIGHT in what I said. But since it was deleted, I'll try again. Kingsnake will NEVER find anything morally wrong with venomoids because they are paid by the hackers to advertise. You would think that pethobbyist would want the best for the animals that are being sold on their site, how sad.

I will try not to rant either, but on a subject that I feel this strongly about, it's gonna be a losing battle. I too have noticed a steep increase in the amount of venomoids being offered on the kingsnake classifieds...there seem to be dealers who actually specialize in selling venomoids! How ridiculous. This is an effort to "popularize" the hobby of venomous snake husbandry. It's trying to make it safe for EVERYONE AND ANYONE to get their hands on that beautiful gaboon or that awesome king cobra that they normally couldn't or wouldn't keep with it's venom. If there was no age restriction for keeping venomoids, you could be sure there would be quite a few people buying venomoid cobras for their kids because "It'd be cool" or something, at least we have that to thank. Look at green iguanas, everyone and their mother has one, but very few know how to properly care for them, hence you have the tons (literally!) of iguanas abused, and dumped and abandoned at the already iguana filled rescues. It's because the petstores and dealers market them as cute little lizards (which they are when they are young), not informing anyone that it will quickly grow into a 6 ft. possibly aggressive monster that few people have the desire or know-how to care for. Same with hots. Making them venomoid makes them "safe" for the amateur (who has no interest in actually learning the techniques needed to care for hots) to aquire.

Keeping venomous snakes is not hard. I liken it to driving. There are plenty of inherent risks in driving. Almost everyone has been in some kind of auto accident. You have no control other than safety measures. Same with hots. You have your tools, your locked cages, the antivenin, etc. Cars you have seatbelts, airbags, etc. Driving (safely) is all about keeping your attention focused on the task at hand. Few people actually do this, but they still get away with it, for a while. Same with hots, a lot of fools get away with incredibly foolish things with hots for a while, but sooner or later it catches up with them. Basically, both driving and keeping venomous animals are disciplines, that ANYONE can learn. They just have to take the time and have the patience to learn it, and not stray from the beaten path and make mistakes. All of us know irresponsible keepers, and i'm sure all of us know irresponsible drivers, some among us may fit both descriptions. I think i may have strayed from the topic at hand. But basically, i was saying that venomoids are only there because people who really don't have a passion enough for the animal want to obtain it, and that's just sad. Anyone can keep a copperhead, or rattler, or even cobra IF THEY TAKE THE TIME TO LEARN HOW TO PROPERLY DEAL WITH AND MAINTAIN THE ANIMAL AND THEY TAKE THE PROPER PRECAUSIONS. Even the best keepers get tagged, no one is safe from that no matter how much experience they have, but the best keepers do all they possibly can to minimize the risk and if it does happen, they have their safety measures in place. I've really strayed now, so i'm gonna hush up, but the topic of venomoids really heats me up. If you want a cobra, get the FULL COBRA, not a cobra with pieces missing! And if you want a hacked cobra because your afraid of getting bitten, stick with non-venomous!~

AP

Do pethobbyist allow advertising for "Croc for sale - teeth, tail and claws removed- may live a t least a week" or " Rottweiler for sale - teeth removed - sometimes eats porridge"
No they don't.
I suggest that the time has come for those of us who feel strongly about this issue to actually put our money where our mouths are, and to lobby pethobbyist to ban all venomoid ads on kingsnake.
Venomoid keeping is immoral - you are creating a demand, and the bastards who do the "operations" continue to supply.
You keep venomoids- remember, what goes around , comes around.
If kingsnake refuse to budge, I for one will boycott them AND their sponsors.
Time to take a stand...

i keep seeing "parts removed" and sentences like no othe add section allows mutilated animals,your wrong!I have seen gilas advertised with missing legs,iguanas with no tail,and tegus with part of lower jaw missing,last week there was actualy a caimen that had its tail bitten off advertised !you say it doesnt happen anywhere else on ks,but it does !,and no one is crabbing about that(until now)we all like the forums,we all have a right to say what we think needs to be said,but lets get the facts strait.if ks asks for the hatchet job "venomoids to go, then all imperfects must go as well,mabey thats best,Im not throwing opinions,just stating facts,and isnt that what makes the forums so great?I am tired of constantly re hashing this issue,and reading thru all the venomoids to find the venomous,so mabey they should have a venomoid forum, and classified,...oh my goodness !what will we talk about then?
HOW ABOUT REPTILES !!!!

>>What ad had the venomoid in it that DIDN'T say "venomoid" on the header?
>>I didn't see it..Point me to it please.

Sorry about the delay Randal, I was at a Young Democrats statewide meeting in Little Rock all day yesterday. The ad or ads I'm referring to aren't up right now, but I have seen ads like that in the past. I specifically remember one for an albino monocled that was just labeled as an albino monocled and didn't say it was a venomoid until you actually opened the ad. Others will simply say something about collection for sale or whatever and they end being or at least including venomoids.
-Chance

Thanks Chance for pointing that out.
I shoulda have attended the Old Democrats mtg yesterday, but my "sometimers" kicked in!

Yeah, you definitely should have. You wouldn't have even been the oldest one there! No, but seriously, there were some awesome speakers. I never knew our atty general, Mike Beebe, was such as cool guy. One of his quotes I liked best was that "If any of you young people have friends that are republicans, tell them to get their heads out of their a*ses and wake up." I just wish I would have taped his talk. We also had Snyder and Lincoln there to speak. It was just in general a great meeting and I very much look forward to the one next year. Can you believe it? ATU actually had one of the biggest turnouts there! lol Most people are surprised we even have a YD organization...
-Chance