Reptile & Amphibian Forums

After all of the discussion below about the "quality" of JCPS, I thought I'd post this pic' of one of my favourites.
He's a 3 year old Mattison that lost any yellow he had almost as soon as he got it. He has tons of black tipping which makes him look four times his age.... and he's one of my favorites.
I will probably never breed him, for the simple reason that I don't think there would be much interest in his offspring -and I know that most people would be disappointed if their juvies grew to look like this- but I REALLY like him.
When he sheds he has a subtle and natural beauty which puts me in mind of the wild in a way that my more "high-end" ones don't.
And, as I've said before, no one criticises scrubs or olives for being brown. If it wasn't for all of the selective breeding to produce some of the stunning black and yellow animals around today, I think we'd all be more appreciative of JCPs as a whole.
I always feel a little uncomfortable when I hear people talking about the "quality" of an animal. It's such a human thing. There is, in my opinion, no such thing as a "ugly" jungle. There are just some whose beauty is less obvious than others.
I am not criticising the black and yellow jungles or the people who have worked so hard to refine them (and from an investment point of view I would say "pay the extra for a black and yellow every time) I just think it's a little sad that we feel the need to label their less glamourous peers "ugly" or "poor quality"

Just my opinion.

G

np

I agree totally with your opinion that one shouldn't say ugly or less worth or so on about an animal.

If I were you, I'd breed this beauty (and I think he really is one) just to preserve the diversity in jungles. If everyone only breeds jetblack and yellow jungles, the diversity in the jungles gets lost!

just my thoughts about quality

regards, sinael

Your not the only one. I wish we could just step back and realize what beauty really is. I have seen so many animals labled as "ugly", or "lower end" but when you interacted with them they were just as beautiful and intriguing as any "high end" animal. I think we as keepers and breeders need to step back and instead of looking at colors, look at all the traits that makes that certain animal unique. I think too much emphasis is put on what "we" think a animal "should" look like, rather than what it would naturally look like. It's really sad, because thats what our society is based on

I think we should all like snakes exactly how we like them in our OWN brains. I don't want you to think like me, but more importantly, I don't want you to want ME to think like you (ha ha, my head hurst).

But people like snakes for different reasons so why the #$$@!! does it matter? Point is they like them and if the snake isn't suffering, then why care about it? I like that there's some people that strive to get different colors and patterns, and I like that there's some people who prefer muddy colors and wild type traits. There's room for both so I don't know why you wish everyone to think like you do.

Beyond me.

It may seem strange (considering that you "disagree" with me completely) but I agree with you completely.
In fact, that is exactly the point I was making.
No one snake is inherently higher "quality" than another. Each has it's own appeal.

G

....that you were responding to Eric's post, not mine. Still, it doesn't seem to me that he said anything that was contrary to what you said (I may be wrong but I guess it's up to Eric to respond if he wants).

G

But yeah, I was replying to Eric's comments. It just irked me that he actually found it "sad" that people like pretty snakes. I scraped my grey matter for an eternity wondering why that would make him sad.

It is still beyond me.

People do like snakes for different reasons. I wasn't denying that. What gets me is when some a holes in the herp world think that their animals are better than someone else's ( There is some definate animosity in the herp world! Hell, go to the Boa forum; it's great! ). I keep some very high end Amazon tree boas, but I also can appreciate the $30 garden phases. I have been put down over the years because of that fact. I also keep/breed normal Ball pythons. You know how many times I've been called stupid/dumb/retarded because I keep/breed these animals that wholesale for around $8 each? There are some truly dedicated people in this hobby, and they should be commended. But their are some people who think they ( and thier animals ) are above everyone else. What I'm trying to say is difficult to put into words, but then again, who really cares?

What you are basically saying is that you should be able to respect and stare in awe at snakes just because they are snakes, and not because they have neon heads and fluorescent scales.

I respect that.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have black and yellow jungles as well as melanin loaded jungles, both my goals are for crisp black and yellow as well as melanin loaded individuals, i love them both.Who knows some other trait may pop up that i like.

cheers
mark

I dont think anyone can call a pretty black and gold jungle...sad. I think it is sad if someone breeds jungles for the hell of it, i think breeders should always have a goal, whether it is for pattern, colour etc, that is what i call fun.

cheers
Mark

No one has called black/gold Jungles sad.
I, for one, merely expressed the opinion that it is sad that many people believe that a non-black/gold is a "poor quality" animal.

G

Nicely put.

Would definitely have to be a pure black specimen. No yellow or markings of any kind. Just pure black, like those kingsnakes. Man, that'd be a sweet snake.

Hey Jeff i am actually working on that now.I have some three year olds, about 3 foot long that are melanin loaded, only 2nd generation captive bred, am striving for jungles that are totally black, not smudged, by age 3.

cheers
Mark

That would be fantastic. A pure black jungle would rock. I think the jungle from the original post looks very nice. Some people have different goals and opinions, so what.
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"Victory is reserved for those willing to pay its price"

If you get a pure black and shiny baby hatching one day, call me. I will fly down to the States and bring it back personally!

I'm pretty sure that MarkAus lives in Australia.

Jake

Damn.

The Barkers have been working on this for a while. I've never actually seen any of them, but they're supposed to get pretty black.

Jake

I wonder if melanistic specimens occur in the wild at all?

The Barkers are still working on the black jungle, because they were working from such fine animals i think it may take them a while, i emailed them and they said mine were much darker than any of theirs.Fully black jungles do exist down here in Australia but not as hatchlings but as adults, but i doubt whether it is a shiny black, but who really knows, anything is possible.

cheers
Mark

I guess it wouldn't be true melanism then. Well I guess it is, just not single-recessive or anything like that. Oh well.

I see nothing wrong with that snake. He or she obviously found a great home.

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