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ok,
i am sick of the arguements of using subsrate or not...all i have to say is that if substrate is so so bad then why do leopard geckos live in the wild? it isnt like they live under papertowel in the wild.......yes i agree there are some substrates you shouldnt use but i do not agree with letting your leo live on papertowel after it is 6 inches long...i am not trying to cause problems but it is just my opinion........
-thor
Yes and deer get hit by cars, so if I own a deer should I push it in front of cars?
Point being, the wild is much more dangerous than captivity
using hitting a deer with a car is a terrible comparison....That's completely unnatural... Point is, if they weren't meant to live on certain things they wouldn't...they just wouldn't survive...animals are the way they are because they are in the environments they best survive in...those environments may not be perfect...but that's why evolution occurs. If they lived in unsuitable environments they'd die. The thing with the substrates we use in captivity is that they aren't set up like the wild environment is. Wild leos live in mostly rocky areas, and where there aren't rocks there is a hard clay base layer with a VERY fine and dusty sand layer on top. They don't purposely hunt on this sand either, they prefer to hunt on hard surfaces. The problem in captivity is that the sand is much more coarse, and most people who use it have an entirely sand substrate and feed crickets. Also, calcium carbonate based sands encourage consumption. The key to using sand in captivity is to have the vast majority of the substrate be slate or tile with sand filling in the empty spaces, and feeding mealworms in a dish. Also, if the leos are observed licking at the sand, they should be taken off it, and NO hatchling or small juvies should be kept on any sand at all. Just how dangerous using sand is is a matter of huge debate...There's really no conclusive evidence about just how dangerous it is...and so right now its just a matter of opinion...you just got mine, now make your own! 
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Christina
1.3.1 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)
"but they do die!!!"...
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Christina
1.3.1 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)
"Also, calcium carbonate based sands encourage consumption. "
I disagree with this as far as my own geckos (I'm sure other people have had the problem with encouraged consumption) when my girls accidentally get some sand in their mouth, they actually spit it back out. It's kinda cute, but at least I know they don't like the taste of the sand.
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-Kristen
0.7 Leopard Gecko (Buttercup, Beaker, Beauty, Blaze, Bubbles, Blinkers, and Squiggles {yeah I broke with the B's, but her head has black squiggles on it!!!})
1.1 Fat Tail Gecko (Bell and Bowser {and I'm hoping for some eggs soon!!!})
0.1 Deformed Leopard Gecko (Gimpy)
Proud owner and operator of a Powerbook G4! Why use windows, when I can use Panther? It even sounds better.
it DOES encourage consumption because most people who use sand/calci sand dont calcium dust their leos food.
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0.1 Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 ball python (felix)
1.1 feral cats (Fuzzy, and Bear; it used to be fuzzy, wuzzy, bear)
LOL...if they are trying to get extra calcium some leos may very well consume calcium carbonate sand in an attempt to get it
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Christina
1.3.1 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)
ok ok,
all that post has done is start argueing...whether you use loose substrate or not i still think loose is best.....that is my opinio and i know evryone doesnt agree w/ it....also if people are going to critisize what i say at least make the statement a relivent one.....
-thor
we've argued on here all the way past the side of the page...no one is arguing now....
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Christina
1.3.1 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)
Take a look at your leo's feet. That right there should tell you that a loose substrate is not the best. Their little feet are not designed to walk on the sand. In fact, if you watch them walking on newly laid sand substrate, you will notice their feet sink. They were not made to walk around on two inches of loose sand, and they dont in the wild. They live on rocks and packed clay, a much harder substrate. Which is why i LOVE my slate floor tiles
Not looking for an argument here because this topic has been beaten into the ground, BUT they are not found on sand in the wild, and are not designed to walk on it constantly. So if you are lookin for an all natural substrate, sand is pretty far from it.
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~Melissa~
1.3 Leopard geckos (Guido, Oasis, Gypsy, Marli)
1.0 Bearded dragon (Pharoah)
1.0 Hog Island Boa (Michelangelo)
0.0.1 Crested Gecko (Picasso)
1.0 Ferret (da Vinci)
0.1 Chinchilla (Eevie)
And Jack the cat!
Just so you know...there are lizards with feet similar to those of leos...that live exclusively on sand. Anyway, that said, as I've stated numerous times on the forum, and as a few others have said, they DO live in areas with sand...however its extremely fine and dusty, and they live and hunt MOSTLY on rocks...not entirely...which is why the way I suggest setting up a tank is about as natural as you can get. The only issues with it are that the sand is much more coarse than in their natural environment, and if calcium carbonate sand is used, it can encourage consumption.
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Christina
1.3.1 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)
true,
but they can live in some pretty sandy places....maybe i should havebeen more specific with the kin dof substrate i was critisizing....i was critisizing the paper towel aproach to substrate...i agree with the plates but i think there should be some kind of loose substrate added...but thank you for giving examples of good solid substrate.....
-thor
Sand that you buy in the U.S is extremely different than the extremely fine thin layer of sand you would find in the wild. ANd like 'stina said they dont purposely hunt on sand in the wild.
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0.1 Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 ball python (felix)
1.1 feral cats (Fuzzy, and Bear; it used to be fuzzy, wuzzy, bear)
The leopard geckos in the wild are more fit for it. They can stand eating the sand and not being impacted because they are designed to live like that. But because our leos are cative bred their digestive system just cant handle sand. Mine lives on carpet.
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There is no proof or reason to believe that the digestive system of captive leos is different from that of wild ones. The problem is the WAY leos are made to live on sand in captivity.
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Christina
1.3.1 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-0.0.1 albino (supposed Tremper)(Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)
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