Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First, I mean no offense to the people I mention. I am sure they are very nice people. This is only about their involvement in this forum and varanus.net. As that is all I know of them.

This is about Education and keeping monitors.

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Posted by: FR at Sun Feb 29 09:57:23 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

You see, your agenda is popping up in your head. I did not call you stupid, I merely pointed out, you have not accomplished much in the field of monitors. That my friend, has nothing to do with how smart you are.

Also, how well rounded you think you are, is silly, this forum is not about rounded. Its about monitors. The whole point and meaning of this little exercise is. All you education, all your understanding, all your well roundedness, can be meaningless in this field.

You can read, see, think any old thing you want. You can make all the connections and sense you want with all that. The problem is keeping monitors is a practiced field. You have to DO it, not think it. Even more important, you have to do it, with living animal/s. Their life or death or success, is controlled by your actions, not your thoughts. Do you understand that? They are controlled by what you do, actually do, not what you think or read, or are told. Please read this paragraph over and over.

This is exactly my problem with the likes of DK and Sam, and you. You fellas somehow think, its about thinking and how smart you are. Its not. Its only about WHAT YOU DO. You have to actually do something. Now the sad part, you have to do it right. If not, the poor individual animal suffers. Not me, not your teacher, not your parents, your poor captive animal.

Now if you're smart, you could see this part coming. If you accept keeping monitors is only about what you do, then to gain accolades or to be called successful, you must actually have done something. You know, the accomplishments that are considered good and valuable, have to be past tense. They have to be done. Again, not thought. "I could have done that", IF only.

Now you should understand why I have heated discussions with you and DK and Sam, while all of you may be huge geniuses, all of you have not done anything. Not the things considered important to these(captive) forums. So, all of you may be stupid, but its only because you think your smart, when your in a field that you have to "do" something to be smart. Its a field where your thoughts are practiced. They must produce results to be considered valid. I really hope you get this.

Those other folks are very smart, except, they are in the wrong field. They should be in theoretical monitor keeping. FR

In fact, many folks may be over educated, think to much and make to many theories. Please remember, making theories means, you do not understand the subject. If you did, there would be no need for theories. I apologise to those who think this is worthless. I really hope this is worthless, that would mean you already understand it. Thanks FR

This thread, and the one below it refers to was pretty worthless. However, not really for the reasons you suggest.

You are so concerned about making sure no one measures up to you and your accomplishments that monitors cease being the primary or even secondary focus of the discussions. You are so concerned about what DK, Sam, myself (at one time) had or had not accomplished that it really is silly. Stop trying to compete with us, or pretending we are competing with you.

This forum is about monitors and posting information that is related to them. Sam posted some chemistry information about heat packs. That is very useful information, especially for me as I may need to start shipping animals soon. I would like to know what could go wrong and why, as understanding why will allow me to develop a method to bypass those problems. It does not matter if Sam has bred monitors or not. Chemistry does not change based on one's experience with monitors. The shipping solution to the chemistry problem might hinge on one's experience with monitors (or shipping reptiles in general). Sam's information told us what the problem could be. A shipper could tell us how it is solved. What a great way to approach things.

I am repeatedly amused (and disappointed) by your claims that you look at what monitors do rather than using theories. Your entire approach to monitors was based on theories. You made hypotheses about why things were failing and how to improve things. Some of your theories were correct, though I suspect some were wrong. You love to focus on those theories that were correct, while remaining dead silent on the ones that were wrong. Such silence dooms others to repeat your mistakes, and that serves no other purpose than your agenda (haha) of trying to stay above everyone else.

I post my failures more often than my successes. You know better than anyone about my failures (because your agenda requires you to keep score). Why do I post all of my failures? I do so to help the next person who breeds water monitors (or anything) avoid my mistakes and pitfalls. They do not need to reinvent the wheel, there are plenty of other problems to waste time on.

You failed with water monitors this past summer. Yet you remained completely silent on the matter on this forum until I challenged you in September. Even then, your response was something along the lines of you not being really interested in water monitors. What does that teach or contribute to the knowledge about monitors? Absolutely NOTHING!

I post my failures (plenty of dead babies - 9 total over the past 3 clutches) and let lots of people hypothesize and develop theories to test about what is going wrong (there's that literature/theory thing) and how to fix it (there's that hands-on thing). I've gotten responses from absolute novices to literature references to experienced egg hatchers. I have a theory about what is going wrong and how to fix it. We will see if it is correct, and everyone on this forum will know too because I will post if it fails or succeeds.

Just to point out a few other theories you've had that were way off. In August or September of 2001 you swore to me that Mushu would be dead soon and never lay another clutch. She was alive and kicking this morning (February 29, 2004). None of the eggs she laid would hatch. They did and, in fact, Dragon celebrated her 2 year birthday on February 27. Stevie celebrates his on the 4th. I'd never get another clutch. I did. In fact, I have one that is due to hatch right about now (and has already produced 1 live baby and 2 dead ones). One has to wonder what you were basing your theories about what my monitors would do, especially since you've been so wrong about them. One has to wonder what other "hard facts" and interpetations you cling to that are nothing more than theories that look good so far.

Below is a link to some pictures of 2 dead babies and 1 live one that was my admission ticket to the "stupid club." A link on that page will take you to my other salvator page with some success and some failures. I wonder what failures you're willing to post.

The image is Jalepeño (D.O.B. 9/16/03) taken in September 2003.

February/March 2004 hatchlings

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^x^ Bloodbat ^x^

and Jalepeño rules. I can only hope that I can contribute half as much as you have when I start breeding my argus.

Well said Bloodbat...success is not measured by this so called "Vara-constant" one person aspires to and from his own deitification, but rather, as Einstein said, "It is relative" (haha)....all aspects of varanid husbandry and related topics are useful here. Simple chemical equations do not change, even if temperature and pressure change (i.e. Boyles Law)....so just enjoy the sharing and hopefully everyone will learn something new here every day...
cheers,
mbayless

I really have no need or compulsion to respond to you. I do hope you learn something very basic.

Your whole approach to me is about something I do not understand. You somehow think allowing monitors to do what they are designed to do,(grow, breed, hatch, etc) makes me, or you or anybody special. How did you put it, to measure up. Personally, I do not feel it makes me or you special or a big man or any of the stupid things you may think.

Thinking back, you must feel that it indeed makes You special, because, my single grip about you, was you giving advice about things you have never done. Why did you do that? to be special?

Now that you are breeding waters and are having both success and failures, I do not see so much advice coming from you. Did reality strike you in the face? Did you find out you did not know so much?

But enough of that, monitors have been successful for tens of thousands of years, without my help or yours. If I were you, I would not think about measuring up, but instead think about allowing monitors to be monitors and do what they are designed to do. Good luck and success, FR

np.

I prefer F's info. I also rather listen to Dylan than Hootie.

Be smart enough to read through and take whats useful from everyones posts. Then build from it, most of us have good things to say. Sometimes you just gotta weed it out.

Reading between the lines is a great tool.

n/p

"Please remember, making theories means, you do not understand the subject. If you did, there would be no need for theories."

I'm rather new to monitors. I don't know much about them except what I've read. I've never bred any or solved any problems with any. I know I my comments don't carry much weight on this forum.
I'm also young compared to some of you (a junior in college). I'm pursuring an education because I want to, not because I believe that's the only way to learn.
FR, you know a lot about monitors and I would trust any advice you gave me, but your beliefs on theories I do not agree with at all. Theories are what all scientific fact is derived from. You start with theory. You can not say that to have theories is useless.
You are also correct in stating that without owning a monitor you can't pretend to be an expert on them (their captive husbandry at least). But to critize somebody for theorizing is wrong. Even if the theroies have been proven or disproven, theories allow people to think through problems.
Theory is important.

When I am talking about theories, it only pertains to monitors and more directly about captivity. As this is what this forum is about.

You question is exactly the problem, Anyone can take anything said by anyone and take it out of context. Or twist it in a non-benefitual way. But the problem is, here the context is in bold letters above. Always remember that.

I always recomend getting as much education as possible, in fact, never stop. The point is, here it must be applied to be useful and important.

Talking is easy, real easy. Doing is not so easy. In the case of monitors, its not that complicated. Of course, those who fail, make it very complicated. Good Luck with monitors and school. FR