Reptile & Amphibian Forums

which is better to give to your corn? i realize the fresher the better, if i bought live mice could i freeze them to kill them? how long do you let frozen mice thaw with out spoiling them?

dennis

frozen is better. an adult mouse could injure your snake. pinkie coulnt, but when a corn is full grown it will take adult mice. better to get it started on frozen early.
you could buy live and kill them youself, no need to freeze them. put then in a brown paper lunch bag and wack it againt a wall. this will kill the mouse (ya gotta hit it hard enough) and you can then give it right ot the snake.

Frozen/Thawed (F/T) is the way to go. I've had mine on F/T since they were little and they are doing great. I either thaw mine out ahead of time in the fridge then set them out to warm up or put them in a bowl of hot water to thaw out quicker. I do not like the idea of wacking a poor little live mouse out of it's missery. With F/T you can buy in bulk and have a supply in the freezer. I've heard they will last for at least 6 months maybe longer. I usually buy enough for a few weeks.
Now I realize some snakes won't take to F/T but if you start them out as soon as possible they usually take to them. I have 2 corns, 1 milk, and a jungle carpet python. All will eat frozen.

I also feed my corns and milk in seperate container, other then their enclosure, to make sure they eat. If you place a thawed meal in their tank and they don't eat it over night...toss it. I always make sure mine eat. That way you won't be wasting food.

Just my 2 cents on how I feed mine. Works for me. :0)

Feeding with dead mice may cause problem with egg-laying, if you will breed your snakes. This phenomenon called dystocia and females often will die if it happen.
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E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Candycane 2.2
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

"Feeding with dead mice may cause problem with egg-laying, if you will breed your snakes. This phenomenon called dystocia and females often will die if it happen."

I don't quite get this statement??? Are you saying it's better to feed live mice? And that feeding F/T can cause egg binding?

I sure hope that's not what you meant.

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Dianne
AKA IcedGoddess
6.7 Cornsnakes
1.3 Cats
0.1 Child
IcedGoddess Creations
Castle Serpents

I guess this is true because dead mice didn't have all the vitamins that live mice do have!! its a fact... but personally i feed my snake 3 weeks frozen mice with a vitamin supplement each week and 1 week live mice to give them a chance to get all they need and have a little exercice at the same time!

Also, frozen mice sold at pet shop are not always fresh at my opinion, so the best way to get all that your snakes need is to start to breed your own mices and to save money at the same time, so you can kill them just before to feed and never have to give live mice... but you can also buy them at pet store alive and kill them at home.... its a choice!!

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1 ? stripped amel
1 ? anery
1 male hypoamelanstic

to use F/T ot live, it kind of sounds like it?

dennis

Obviously there are people who feed live and have no problems. But I've seen the photos of what a live adult rodent can do, and damned if I'm taking that chance with my snakes! I've been bit by rats and mice myself, and can tell you those teeth are BIG and SHARP, even in mice!

Saying that feeding frozen/thawed mice will cause egg-binding just doesn't fly. How many of the people in here feed only frozen and have had many successful clutches, with no egg-binding? Ruby has never eaten anything but frozen thawed and her last years clutch was perfect. Also, just because the food is dead, doesn't mean the snakes don't constrict it. Most of mine actually do "kill" their dead rodents. Also, I have bought frozen in bulk for over a year now, and my snakes are all growing and very healthy.

Also, "C-section"? In The Corn Snake Manual it shows a picture of Kathy "deflating" a stuck egg with a syringe, it also mentions a couple other ways of helping a stuck egg out. Another thing it mentions, is that lack of exercise contributes. Exercise comes in many forms, and even just giving them larger enclosures to "run around" in helps to avoid this. I can't be sure, But I'm willing to bet that large breeders like Kathy and Don feed almost all, if not all dead prey. And to scare new snake owners into thinking that dead prey is dangerous, only makes them go to the much more dangerous live prey. I'd like to see the human that can make it in between a snake and a mouse when they're in attack mode.

If you are a new snake owner, DON'T FEED LIVE ADULT RODENTS! Mice can't run away in a tank, so all they have left is to fight. It's not like "in the wild".
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Dianne
AKA IcedGoddess
6.7 Cornsnakes
1.3 Cats
0.1 Child
IcedGoddess Creations
Castle Serpents

My experience show that snakes feed by live rodents dont have any egg-laying problem. Experience of my collegues, which lost many valuable and rare snakes, shows the opposite. Anyway, it is only your choice. Do as you wish.

And live rodents do nothing to snakes if herpetoculturists feed them correctly. At least he must be near cage with feeding snake all time, before they kill rodent. Ofcourse, if you go sleep and abandon mice or rat in cage at morning you may found dead snake. But, as i say, this is only your choice.
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E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Candycane 2.2
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

Rodents can transfer parasites to your reptiles and if always feed F/T, then the parasites die too. Feeding F/T is a smart choice, as it is safer for your snakes.

Rodents can transfer parasites to your reptiles and if always feed F/T, then the parasites die too. Feeding F/T is a smart choice, as it is safer for your snakes.

If rodents breed in laboratory conditions they very rare have parasites, more often they have mites. And what parasites they can transfer? I can cure my snakes and no form my snakes die through parasites.
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--------------
E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Candycane 2.2
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

I breed my own rodents and I do see your point but a lot of people get their rodents from the pet stores, and who knows where those rodents came from! LOL!!

For example, I was given a free rabbit for my Reticulated Python and yep, you guessed it, my snake ended up with a case of parasites for the first time in his life. It was horrible. Every time he had to go potty, he would moan and rub his tail across the glass like he was in pain. I've NEVER seen a snake like this. It took not one but 3 courses of dewormer over several months to fix this. I spent well over $200 on him just because of a FREE rabbit.

So now, I've learned my lesson. If I don't know the source, I don't feed live or stunned...EVER!

When snakes strangle their prey - they muscles work. When snakes eat only dead prey - they dont work and become weaken.

For egg laying need some efforts from snake's side (like women child birth spasm). If they too weak for this, they can't lay egg and you must do some of cesarean section, what is problematic for many herpetoculturists.
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--------------
E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Candycane 2.2
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

If not contricting can lead to egg-binding from underworked muscles, then I had better put my rear-fangs on an excercise regimen! LOL!!

Not to mention that every time I feed F/T prey, they constrict it anyway! I cheer on my retic, "Go boy!! You kill that dead rat!!!" The only time I've seen them not restrict is when I feed a pink...they seem to know that they baby can't fight back and swallow it without killing it first.

This is my opinion verify by my own long time experience and experience of my collegues. I and they is herpetologists and care and breed more than 4000 snakes. This is very persuasive for me.

And i entirely ok with Kathy Love - here is lack of movement, but this problem can be solve by my way more easier for me, than let my 240 adult snakes (and some young) swim, climb and jump. And we also use different keeping system, than yours, and have very little space for very big collection.
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E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Candycane 2.2
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

I get the impression that English isn't your first language. When someone says that they're not "buying what you're selling," it could be anything from a physical money exchange to trying to convince someone to believe in your argument.

In this case, you're "selling" your argument and I'm not "buying" it...in other words, I'm not convinced that what you've said is concrete evidence to sway my opinion.

Now, just so everything is clear...I believe everyone has ways of doing things that work for them and that is ok. If everyone were the same, life would be extremely boring. It's ok to disagree as we all learn something that way. I do enjoy a lively debate at times so please do not take offence to anything I've said...just "argue" back! LOL!

Dear Sybella,

you absolutely right, English is not my mother language, i live in Russia. But i correctly understand your phrase and mean what you can have your personal opinion about this question (i.e. - i have nothing to sell). All is ok
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E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Candycane 2.2
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

%)
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E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Candycane 2.2
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

I feed frozen/thawed exclusively. NEVER have had any problems with egg-binding. While it's true dystocia can be fatal, it doesn't have to be. The situation is usually somewhat easily corrected at home,and if not,your reptile vet can certainly help with the problem. Dystocia is usually only fatal when the keeper doesn't tend to it (as if it goes unnoticed).
Some believe that frozen prey items are significantly less nutritious than live prey items. I have to wonder about that, since I had several females TRIPLE clutch last year.
Just my 2 cents.
All the best,
Perry

We add in ration vitamins and minerals supplements, when feed with fresh dead feeding objects. And we regularly have trouble with egg-layng.

I feed my snakes with live rodents and have no trouble with egg-lying, but my colleagues have. We dont feed with frozen rodents and we dont buy it from dealers, we breed them by self.
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E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Candycane 2.2
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

Take the mouse with one hand on it,behind the head....and YANK the tail.This seperates the spinal column and it dies humanely within a minute or so.Easier and healthier to feed f/t.Jeff