Reptile & Amphibian Forums

"Varanoid Lizards of the world", edited by Eric Pianka and the late Dennis King, will be published soon by Indiana University Press (http://www.indiana.edu/~iupress/books/0-253-34366-6.shtml). The contributors are now reviewing page proofs. They include some of the people of whom FR claims in his "meaningful" post below "... all of you have not done anything."

Don't read the book, Frank, you won't like any of it, because hardly any of the 35 authors have done anything, and I don't know of one who makes reference to anything you've ever claimed to have seen or done. I actually agree with both Frank and Bat below -- that what Frank says is meaningful, and that Bat has captured what it means.

I really do concern you don't I. You know Sam, I am only against folks who write/talk without experience, I am against that in any field.

I am against folks(Bat) giving advice without the experience to do so. I am against those who think the knowledge gained from one or a few clutches is the same as the knowledge gained for hundreds of clutches. Bat is now learning there are many hurdles to clear. Just think what he will learn as he gets more and more experience. I hopes its more then when he hatched one individual monitor.

I am against researchers that do not research(you). You see, in all our discussions, you never made a single attempt to research or investigate anything said or shown. That is where you are a failure. You could have checked it out, others have. In fact, Dennis King came here, we had great discussions on monitors. Daniel Bennett came here many times, we also had many great discussions. Both helped me and gave me their books(signed) and Dennis sent me tons of reprints. Dr. Krebs visited also, we got along better then you can imagine. He was appauled the university did not have people here writing this stuff up. I do respect them, even on things we disagree on. The reason is, they did/do their job. They researched and investigated. Something you failed to do.

I surely hope you do more research in your field work, but I am afraid you don't from what I have read.

Yes, I must bug the crap out of you. Because I have done my research, I am doing my research, and I have results. That must be whats bugging you?

What I do find odd(funny) is, many many hobbyist and breeders have come here. FR

I really do concern you don't I? You know Frank, I am only against folks who talk about all their successes while becoming silent and evasive about their failures. I am also against that in any field. I am also against folks who pretend that their failures are beyond the comprehension of others. That just falls back into the evasiveness tactic.

I am against folks (FR) who apparently do not read posts before responding. Particularly when those posts (mine) qualify the advice being given. See, there is nothing wrong with someone mentioning that they read about some topic, heard some item, or think some thought. In my posts I specify whether what I am saying is something I thought/think, heard, or actually observed/experienced. The reader is free to take each item with the grain of salt called for by the qualifier.

I am amused by the score keeping you have consistently engaged in with me. You cannot forget that I hatched only one nile monitor. I am surprised you chose not to mention both parents died, nor did you mention the salvator clutch that died at my mom's (I never did understand what your issue with my mom was since you've never met her and never spoken with her).

You say you hope that my experience keeps growing. You say that as if it is some grand revelation obvious to only you. Again, we have to go back to that reading issue of yours. I have never challenged that my knowledge is limited to a few clutches. I have never claimed to know all there is to know and I have never denied I would continue to learn. I even state openly I will screw up... again and again and again. I hope each time is a different screw up, but as you can see by my post above I made a similar screw up today as I did last week... and even a similar screw up as in the past two clutches. I openly admit all my failures for all to see. Something you fail to do (I have to wonder why).

Yes, I must bug the crap out of you. Because I have done things you have repeatedly stated I would never do. More importantly, my animals have done things you have repeatedly proclaimed they would never do. They have also not done lots of the things you so confidently declared were certain: like die... fail to produce more eggs... fail to grow.. ad nauseum. My animals and I continue to prove you wrong. That must be what's bugging you?

What I do find odd (funny) is that you brought me into a thread in which my name was completely irrelevent. What I also find odd (even funnier) is that after an entire summer, fall, and winter you still have not explained what happened to your water monitor eggs from March aside from they failed to survive and you are not interested in water monitors. Hmmm... you don't like things (people or animals) that challenge your little world, do you? Just a theory (*gasp*).

Happy Herping
Enjoy

-----
^x^ Bloodbat ^x^

First understand, I do not read your posts. Didn't we agree to do that a while back. The reasons are, You are more about people and not monitors.

This post is no different, the first paragraph is as far as I need to go. All your concern is about ego. If you would put yours down and think. But of course your too insecure to do that. Actually your a bit of a fool. Now please, don't fly off the handle, let me explain why.

When I mention success with monitors, thats because they are designed to have success. Its not something special they are suppose to do. Its part of living and breathing. They are suppose to hatch, grow up, reproduce and die. Lets call that their givin rights. Now how can I feel Special, superior, some kind of big fella, simply by allowing them to do what they are suppose to do. They have been doing this since before humans were on earth. I hope that puts it in perpective. No, it does not make me a big man on the block.

When I mention number of breedings, or generations or number of species, it reflects the stinking work, fights, deaths, errors, bad cages, bad nests, simple and complicated mistakes, tons of mouse crap, frustration, bites, craped on, etc, etc, etc, I have gone thru.

Number of clutches means, support and only support. It suggests that I worked hard enough to allow them to continue laying eggs. Generations means, I have WORKED out the kinks that of raising, breeding, and your little problem, hatching eggs. It means, I have done it over and over again.

When I mention these things its suppose to make you think about what it took to get there. Also that in all these years, I figured out a few things. Now, why your a fool, your a fool because your actually begining to do this and see the problems are not just monitors getting along, or breedings or nesting. The problems are actually getting healthy hatchlings. I believe I mentions that is the first magizine articules. Actually its all of the above contribute to the latter.

Your foolish to think its about ego. How foolish do you feel seeing all the dead babies. How foolish do you feel, knowing help is around the corner, or has been right in front of you. Yup, your too egotistical to see that the cure has been and is right in front of you. Yet, you worry about me being egotistical. Please, ask yourself, whos the egotistical fool?

Hear this and understand this, I take no joy is seeing your dead babies. Remember, they are on your shoulders, not mine.

I do respect learning the hard way and if the above doesn't bother you, then it surely doesn't bother me.

You know, one more thing bothers me. All and all, I am foolish for thinking this is about monitors and not people. Really what do the monitors care about any/all/some of us being egotistical, turtlewackers, beanheads, nice guys, bad guys, etc. There concern is to achieve life events. They simply do not care what our personalities are.

Lastly, I am nice to people who are nice to me, and I am a arse to people who are an arse to me. The reason is, there is nothing that says I am suppose to be nice to rude arsebits. Thank you for your time and I will go back to not reading your posts, Please do the same to mine. FR

All personal stuff aside, what could be causing the babies to die so late on in their development? And what causes the internal pressure to be reduced and then increase again? I'm interested.
Thanks

First, I do not know of the conditions envolved. But, I have to wonder, what the internal pressure at the end had to do with it.

The problem would have happened at the time of the first pipping or before. Not after, anything after is most likely an after the fact type of event.

In most cases, its bad incubation. The reason I say that is, If they are in high moisture conditions early in incubation, what you do later may not help. The harm was done then. The cure is to be consistant with your incubation. Monitor eggs do not like mucking around. They like to be stable. If they are in one temp range, they like to stay there, changing can be disasterous. The same goes for moisture conditions. They seem to adjust to the conditions they are in. So put them in normal conditions and leave them that way.

Monitor eggs are much of a mystery, I have some Gouldi cross eggs that are going on 1 year and are perfectly fine. The clutch before and the clutch after have all hatched. But this one is just sitting tight. By the way, the eggs look perfectly normal.

That has some meaning here, as somehow, the eggs talk to eachother. How and why, is unknown to me. Good Luck. FR

Hypotheticaly, would the clutch that has still not hatched have survived in the wild for a whole year? Would the changing seasons be enough to kill them? I guess it would depend on how well insulated the nest was, right?
Thanks

Actually, that most likely will not occur in nature, as there are a completely different set of circumstances.

The triggers that cause and release diapase(suspended development) most likely are species related as well as local related. For instance, Waters, V.salvator, occur in literally thousands of different natural conditions, each with its own set of rain, temps, drought, etc. Each monitors at each local most likely has to adapt to survive the local conditions. FR

That makes sense.
Thanks

You can call me all the names you wish and label me whatever you would like. You can evade the monitor questions all you want and focus on personal things. You can do whatever you want, that does not change the monitor questions posed to you.

What happened to your water monitor eggs? Why did they fail to survive? What were the observations? What made this clutch different from other clutches you have successfully hatched? How about some monitor stuff from you?

I know it is much easier to pretend (I really hope it is an act) to be ignorant or foolish or whatever and focus on me, but try to be a big boy and talk about monitors.

Happy Herping

-----
^x^ Bloodbat ^x^

Dang your funny. First the two eggs I had years ago were not viable. How simple is that. I did mention the day they were laid that they did not look right, but in the incubator they go.

I think your in for a long rough road. You think your really smart and while you may be, that smartness will not allow you to answer every little event that happens. Your a bad combination, you over-think and are under experienced. How that relates to monitors and more directly to our conflicts, is simple.

It takes time and events to figure out and solve problems, if only in a general way, many of the very simple things that go on with not only monitors, but with all of life. That specially applies to something like monitors, where there is little to no literature of actual reproductive events. Or the events in literature are foriegn to the events you experience.(do not compare)

To allow you a tiny perspective, I will use you as an example. Please take a minute and step outside of yourself. Now look at you. In the world of monitor reproduction, you now have a handfull of reproductive events, under your belt. Now look right next to you, there you are sometime in the future. Only the future you has 2000 reproductive events. My question to you is, does the new you, have the same understanding and opinions of monitors as the old you? Does the new you "agree" with the old you? And lastly, what would the new you say to the old you????? I get the feeling the new YOU would simply say, shut up and get some experience before you go babbling about this and that. Remember, this is the old you and the new you.

Why its hard to comunicate to you and others. You need to understand, that the difference between a handful of reproductive events with a couple species(you) and (2000) reproductive events, with many species(me) is litered with roadblocks and upsets and changes in understanding, relearning things you thought you knew.

The first thing you will learn is, instead of thinking in terms of this does that, you will think in terms of this range of things does that range of events. You will learn what is important and what is not. You will learn that water montiors are not all water monitors. Now you think in terms of your one pair, which is very naive, as soon, you will find out, that each individual and pair, has its whole set of numbers, they simply are not the same. In the old days, I said, they are simply not windup toys.

About my eggs verses your eggs verses whomevers eggs. The questions you pose if serious are meaningless, as we all have different circumstances and more importantly, we all make totally different errors, lots of them. To compare is silly, I do not keep monitors like you, I do not nest monitors like you, I do not incubate monitor eggs like you. So how do you compare? This is not to say one is better then the other, they are simply different. What would be better is comparing results to your results from clutch to clutch and from generation to generation.

Back to my two eggs, they were non-viable, the reason I know is when cut open, there was no embryo. To compare to yours, fullterm dead fetus, is simply not accurate.

The reason I not longer give you any information is, you are not trying to figure out your errors(we all make them) you are only trying to defend yourself. Even the way you post, have me in mind. You really should only concern yourself with your monitors and you.

Then you attack me, for that, you can go to hadies. Attacking someone who may be able to help you, makes you a fool. It also reflects you may not be as smart as you think you are, at least not in this field. Attacking once or twice is forgivable, but your continued attacks is not. Heres the deal, I am not your enemy, your monitors are. They are whats tormenting you. FR

who can piss a bigger hole in the snow!