Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all,

It's been a while since I last visited this forum, and although this question does not pertain to venomous snakes, per say...It does deal with issues in the venomous community.

Before I get flamed to death, you might recall that I was arguing for venomoids that were done by certified veterinarians. I was even considering purchasing one for myself. However I have since changed my ideas and possibly my morals reguarding venomoids. I have decided that I do not need to keep a venomoid snake by any means. I have decided that when I become experienced enough with aggressive non-venomous snakes then maybe I will consider "apprenticing" under a qualified venomous keeper, to learn the proper skills.

With that said, I would like to start to learn those skills and practice some techniques with some of my non-venomous reptiles. Currently I have the animals listed in my signature.

I specifically want help in dealing with the handling of my two almost-year-old Honduran Milksnakes. For some reason these snakes are EXTREMELY jumpy and aggressive. When I was using calci-sand as a substrate a few months ago, I would feed them in their enclosures and I very rarely had to hanlde them. However I have since switched to aspen bedding, and it is quite difficult to handle these snakes. The snakes are seldom seen in the tank, they are almost always buried. When I do happen to walk over to their enclosures while they are "out" they immediately move in very fast very jumpy movements. They sort of jerk to one side or the other sometimes hitting their heads and bodys on the glass of their tanks, and then they re-burrow. When I have to dig them out for feeding time, I have just been picking them up by the lower portion of their body, almost their tails, and letting their heads and body hang down about a foot from my hands, and then I just put them directly in their feeding enclosures. Even wheen feeding they make very jumpy movements. Once they take the mouse(F/T), I cannot go near their feeding containers or they will jerk and jump and sometimes spit out their food. Today one of the snakes struck at me when I was about 2 feet away from her feeding container and she continued to strike as I opened the container. In order to get her out of the feeding container, after feeding her, I had to put gloves on and VERY gently and very slowly move my hand into the container and pick her up and then move her directly into her normal enclosure. I did the same thing with her brother, my male. What I want to know is how should I be handling these snakes so as to not stress them out and to avoid being bit. I don't mind being bit as these snakes are small and it does not hurt, but I would rather save them the stress. I don't see how I would let these snakes "sit" on a hook while being transported as they would almost definitely fly off the hook as soon as i began to pick them up. Can I use a pair of snake tongs and grasp part of their body and then pick them up with the hook? Basically I want to know the proper procedure for handling these snakes say if they were baby saw scaled vipers.

If you're thinking that I'm exagerating on the jumpy and aggressiveness of these snakes, I'm not. One of my snakes, the Desert Kingsnake is calm as a kitten while in her enclosure, when I reach in and take the 90* bends off of her PVC pipe and pull her out, she doesn't seem to mind. She has never gone to bite me once, never even musked or struck at me. However, the second she hits that feeding container she strikes at anything that moves, even the cover and my fingers. But she doesn't move in jumpy motions like these hondurans, not at all. Even my hognose snake who musked me the other day didn't move in jumpy motions when I picked him up, he simply scurried away.

Also, rather then posting another question in the JCP forums, since most of you are experience keepers, I have a question reguarding my JCP. The snake went off feed for 2 months last winter, and the only way I was finally able to get him to eat was to place a warm untouched F/T fuzzie inside his hide box. I continued to try and feed him off the tongs after he initally fed, every time I fed my snakes(every 7-10 days). He would not take the mouse off the tongs for anything. Today (feeding day) when I went to take him out of the enclosure, I noticed that he had either regurgitated or never eaten last weeks meal. I know you're wondering how I didn't notice a mouse lying in there..here's the explanation. I put the mouse in his hide box, and next time I looked in there it was gone. He must have regurgitated it behind his hide box (PVC) pipe and I didn't notice it until today. Is this anything to be concerned about? Should I change anything in his setup? It was about 12 days since their last feeding and today he finally accepted a mouse off the tongs. At first, he struck at it and coiled around it and then he let it go. I again placed the mouse in front of him and this time he strick, constricted and consumed the mouse.

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your time,
Ralph

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0.0.1 Argentine Black and White Tegu
0.0.1 Baby Aru Green Tree Python R.I.P. 01/26/04
2.1 Bearded Dragon
0.0.4 Hatchling Bearded Dragons
1.1 Honduran Milksnake
1.0 Florida Brooksi Kingsnake
1.0 Blood Red Cornsnake
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
0.1 Desert Kingsnake
1.0 Western Hognose Snake
1.0 Bull Mastiff

I keep both cornsnakes and hondurans. There is a definite difference between the two, however calling a baby honduran aggressive seems to me a bit of an overstatement. Baby milksnakes are EXTREMELY jumpy, but do mellow out with age somewhat. My adult honduran is still somewhat jumpy and jerky (especially if it has been a week since I handled him), but has never struck at me. The more you handle them, the calmer they get. I just reach in and cup my hand over the top of the snake and pick it up. I would not use a snake hook, as these guys are like quicksilver or mercury. They just slide off the hook as fast as you pick them up. Handle them gently, supporting most of their body. Don't hang them by their tails, but hold on to them gently instead. You may want to put something around their feeding tanks so they cannot see you when you walk by, as I think it would be stressful to spit out a mouse.

Hope this helps somewhat with your hondurans.
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sue

Yeah, I care for a mexican milk (among 40-50 other snakes) and even though it is generally very calm and constantly handled and used in shows, it still becomes very jumpy/jerky at feeding time. It just seems to be something peculiar to milk.
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Larry D. Fishel
Side effects may include paralysis
and death but are generally mild.

Either way, it's a beauty!!!

To practice for venomous, use hooks on all your snakes. Need I say that tailing Echis is not recommended? If you can't move your Hondurans with 1 small hook, use 2. If still difficult, practice. Skip the separate feeding containers; the extra handling is stressing your babies. If concerned about aspen ingestion, place mice on paper towel in the evening. Or use inverted small flower pots for hide places, with drain holes widened to permit access, placing the pots on pieces of paper towel on top of the bedding. Baby snakes of many kinds readily use such pots. Food is offered through the top hole without alarming the snakes.

Re your slendida: you are seeing the outrageous feeding response that getula kings are known for. Using a feeding cage is just moving the response, not eliminating it.

Re your jcp: hard to say much without more data. Certainly snakes that quit eating drive inexperienced keepers bananas. Get used to it. Many pythons and other snakes go off feed for months, then start back up when they're good and ready. Usually they start this when they are older than your jcp. How to tell when intervention is required is not simple, but getting a fecal exam never hurts. If you haven't already, give your jcp horizontal branches. Young carpets are primarily arboreal. Your snake's feeding may improve if it can "hunt" and feed naturally from a perch. Always re-examine ALL aspects of husbandry when you perceive a problem.