Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If seen a lot of crestie keepers keep there in rubbermaids do most of you do it in rack style and if so what size containner do you use thats commonly available. If you would be willing to share some pics of your setups that be swell even if its not a rubbermaid setup

check out this post that I stumbled onto in the leopard gecko forum (I forget why I was there, I don't own any leos):
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=372307,372375
hope this provides you some insight, but I too am looking forward to what others have to say.
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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

i know that arent your "rubbermaids" but i think its awful. i mean the superworms have more place than the geckos. this husbandry is now where near acceptable, makes me freak out... geckos stuffed in plastic boxes like toys...
if that guy would get visited by a veterinary over here, he would lose all his animals.

shocked greetings

ingo

take a loo at the thread.. read what he failed to ask.... those are where hatchlings reside....
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

well the leos are mature animals, i didnt only talk about the aurics. but this discussion wont lead to anything here.

best regards

ingo

I can understand -totally- the idea of calling out a "keeper" that is not feeding their animals, not providing heat and water, proper required UV lighting (for diurnal animals) but insinuating that a person should have her animals tkaen away from her because she does not keep them in what YOU consider a proper enclosure is just not right. These are captive bred animals that have been reproduced in captivity for many generations. They would die in the wild. In order to reproduce their natural habitat you would have to enclose your entire backyard or more, and simulate the weather and lighting cycles of wherever a particular animal occurs in nature. Let me ask you a question, and I am not being sarcastic in any way, shape or form. I am really interested in hearing your answer. Do you believe it is cruel to keep a goldfish in a fish bowl?

PS. Please post some pictures of your animals and their enclosures.
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Peace-
Kelli Hammack
H.I.S.S.
email me

nono, dont get me wrong, its not because im that good
and know everything, you would lose your animals over
here because its the law. there are official minimum
requirements over here, that have to be achieved.

=)

best regards

ingo

You know, after thinking on it for awhile, I remembered the first time I ever saw snakes housed in rack systems. I had only been keeping herps for a couple of years at that point, and had gone to a local breeder's home to look at a corn snake he had for sale. i was revolted by his setup, which was your standard Rubbermaid type blanket box rack system. Snakes were on aspen bedding, had a hide box and a water bowl. But because at the time I housed all my animals in large glass aquarium type enclosures with climbing branches, rock water bowls, plants etc., and also because I had never seen a rack system before, it seemed cruel to me as well. As I got more years of reptile keeping experience under my belt, and met more people that I could learn from (zookeepers, professional herpetologists, large scale breeders) my collection began to grow and my main focus became captive propagation. I also learned about many different ways to house the types of reptiles I kept, and decided what worked best for me. I am still learning to this day, and I hope I continue to do so. All I can really tell you is that I have had great success at breeding almost every reptile I have kept, and I truly believe that has a lot to do with my husbandry. While it is true that one can reproduce reptiles under substandard conditions (subpar housing, feeding, lighting, humidity etc.) I don't believe one will get excellent production and healthy animals for the long term. This is why I feel that simplistic caging and rack systems and the like are best FOR ME, because my animals are healthy and thriving in them. In closing, I feel I was a bit hypocritical in my initial replies to your posts, as thinking back on my own experiences I can see why you would feel the way you do. I still strongly disagree with what you said about Robin having substandard and unacceptable husbandry, but I DO understand why you may think so. It's just not true however, in my very humble opinion.
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Peace-
Kelli Hammack
H.I.S.S.
email me

Completely off topic, but it actually is horribly inhumane to keep a goldfish in a bowl, just about the only things that can survive in a bowl are a betta and a paradise gourami. In general, bowls make an incredibly sucky excuse for an aquarium.
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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

substitute "goldfish" for "betta". I know nothing about goldfish personally, I only kept African and South American cichlids when I was into fish, but you know the point I think you probably can understand the point I was trying to make...or perhaps you don't...either way it's ok with me.
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Peace-
Kelli Hammack
H.I.S.S.
email me

I meant to say, substitute "betta" for "goldfish". Arghhh I guess maybe only getting 30 minutes of sleep Tuesday night and no sleep at all last night has scrambled my noggin. Also might have something to do with the fact that I quit smoking on Monday. Sorry for the jumbled incoherancy! *blushes and falls asleep at the computer desk at the same time*
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Peace-
Kelli Hammack
H.I.S.S.
email me

Ah, you don't know it, but I'm an expert on having "stupid tired" days. Days in which you are so tired that you're just flat out stupid, thus "stupid tired". That's the biggest reason I got out of working third shift jobs, because stupid tired days happened more than they logically should have, but hey, look at it this way, at least you quit smoking. Even though I really hate those stupid "truth/stand" commercials, I have to admit they make a good point. Smoking drools, kittens rule!!!

*Suddenly walks past a kitten wearing a tiny visor, smoking, and dealing black jack*

Well, I thought I was making a point...
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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

nhfhh
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The paradise gourami is the only gourami I've heard is good for living in a bowl (not that I'm an expert), there are some gouramis that get six inches or more and would be inappropiate for the bowl life. So I would probably stick with just bettas and paradise gouramis unless further research is done. It is also worth a mention that bettas and gouramis are very closey related and are a group of fish called Anabantids and can also breathe air from the surface of the water, in fact I've heard that on occasion bettas will live in wet mud (not on purpose I assume).
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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

UV required for diurnals?...who says?...oops wrong forum. Just kidding Kelli. That's a whole diferent ugly debate. For the record, I have never used a UV producing buld for any diurnal lizard If kept and bred in 10 years. As for this thread, I keep my Rhacs in 16 x 16 x 20 screen cages now, but used to keep 1.2 per 66 quart sterilite. The only reason I switched is for ease a feeding and cleaning.
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Bill DiFabio
Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
Email Me
"The poetry that comes from the squaring off between,
And the circling is worth it.
Finding beauty in the dissonance." - Maynard James Keenan

plastic sterilite tubs and/or plastic caging of similar size until they are almost adult size. Once they reach adulthood I move them into 10 gallon tanks. They are housed individually at this point, and introduced for short periods of time for breeding. I have produced 5 babies this season from my original adult pair, and have a clutch still incubating. My ciliatus seem to do very well housed this way. I believe that one of the true marks of excellent husbandry and care is success is captive reproduction (if this is one of your goals with a species). Anyway, here are some photos of my R. ciliatus and some of their enclosures. Please excuse the poor quality as I just snapped them really quickly last night!

a couple of subadult females and the 16"x16"x20" cage they reside in:

Here is a picture of a Sterilite tub I keep some young juveniles in:

The inhabitants of that particular box:

Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that, in my opinion, the Rhacodactylus seem to do great in these types of setups.

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Peace-
Kelli Hammack
H.I.S.S.
email me

i bet you mistreat them and take em out back for fifty lashings from a razor strap for pooping in their water dish huh???

those gorgeous fat, healthy animals look horribly mistreated... you know in the wild they need trees and i am sure they dont eat crickets,mealies,baby good ccg.... so i suggest you go out back and makes a minimum 10 goot tall by 6 foot wide by 10 feet long enclosure, make sure and do your reseach to plant what they would eat there, import the insects they would come across there... exact climate and humidity. oh and you can forget the natural preditors.

arent i right cilliatus?????
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

because the polution and air quality, never go look at them (because thats not natural for them to see humans very often if at all) so if one dies ya really wont know except for maybe the smell.. but you have to leave it for the natural decomposition to take place to replenish the soil and trees. however once a year you can chop down or demove one tree, because of deforestazation and whatnot and plant a small crop in its place... hook you dacshund up to a small wooden plow to till the soil.
shoot dont even get em because sooner or ;later we are all going to be burnt to death by the big flamings metiorite that hits earch or perhaps when the sun finally just sucks us in... hm maybe i can look forward to the suntan i will get.....
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

sorry i was wrong, i thought you where a grown up that i
could actually talk with...

and its ciliatus, like rhacodactylus ciliatus, you know
the species you are keeping?

best regards

ingo

i sure do you know, thank you.... but i am getting at keeping them in a natualistic environment... if we are going for nasturalistic here then youre falling a bit short don't you supose?.... lets face it you are not meeting their natural and realistic environmental and natural food source and in take
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

of course its not possible to totally keep them like it would be in nature, also because you wouldnt want to (predators etc...).
i always said as close as possible.

wish you a nice day

ingo

well i figure since we are talking about naturalistic evironments.. we might as well get real. but then again these are CB animals and quite possibly for many generations whom have never been exposed to the wild or wild conditions. we preen them, pamper them, incubate their eggs for them, some of us handle them... feed them foods with preservatives or bugs grown on a bug ranch, not even native to where they are from. we breed them to attempt weird colors, patterned and bright animals . i guess what i am saying here is whether naturalistic conditions or not we strive to mett their needs now you might like the pretty plants and all but considering you feed your geckos manmade or man grown foods, naturalistic environment or not... you are just like me even with my rubbermaids........ trying to provide the best we can for them to thrive and shoot for your the natualistic thing but falling short by having to.. feed them a man made diets not even relitively close to what they eat in the wild. i am sure also if you look for more info you will notice alot of the flora in your vivs arent something in their natural enviroment.. but hey it sure looks pretty.............. you are not better than me and you are cheating yourself by thinking that because rubbermaid or vivarium its still not nature... we can fool ourselfs with pretty plants, neat rocks and nifty wood, none that enhabit none of their natural environment but thats OK cuz it sure looks pretty...... and its natural.... just not natural to their environment in the wild...... and neither are my rubbermaids
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-robin struck
Geckoheads And Geeks

i agree with a lot you just said, and the plants arent from new caledonia, you are right.
as i stated in a mail to your friend, i may have just freaked out because i thought the aurics where mature, although i wouldnt keep leos like you do, it may be just 2 different worlds, that meet each other through the internet.

i do believe you want the best for your animals, and bottomline, that counts the most of all arguments.

wish you a nice day

ingo