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Maybe for you that formula works but not for others.

kick_baal Mar 02, 2004 08:45 PM

If we want to discuss it as a sin, then let's just say it is in good company in our (American) society. It's always been the one that people refused to overlook even though we conveniently blind our eyes to so many other sins. I don't have Sobek's hatred of religion fortunately, but I am dismayed to see religious leaders getting severely bent out of shape over this issue as if it were the most horrible thing in the world. Here in Atlanta religious leaders and their disciples have set up camp for the past 2 days on the steps of the State Capital to preach to the "sinful". It seems to me that all of that fervor would be better spent compelling our leaders to more useful ends like putting more resources in our schools, lowering prescription costs for the elderly, creating more jobs, limiting outsourcing to foreign entities, and improving our cities' infrastructure to minimize urban sprawl.

It's a rather sad sight actually to see all this blustering over a group that most conservative factions cite as being less than 3% of the total population. I imagine it's easier to speak out against this small group that it is to tackle the real issues plaguing the sanctity of marriage - divorce and adultery. According to the Bible, divorce is granted ONLY in when one partner has committed adultery and divorcing for any other reason renders both of them adulterers for the rest of their lives if they ever have sexual relations with another person. The divorce rate in America is believed to be approximately 50%, so this means that a preacher effectively disenfranchises half of the people in his congregation with each sermon or service about the social evils of divorce and adultery. Suddenly I see the wisdom in attacking homosexuals - it's the numbers, stupid!

The Law is Old Testament, but the people I see coming out in force against this issue seem to be exclusively Christian in belief. I find this interesting but not surprising. Christians should realize that they aren't saved by the laws of Moses but rather the grace of Jesus Christ. The problem is that most of them simply can't accept on some deep level that salvation is so simple - accept Christ and receive life eternal. There are no cryptic rules to follow - avoid pig products (not just bacon guys, this means suede leather is off limits too), no wearing clothing of 2 fibers (damn, no polyester/rayon Izod Lacoste shirts just when they were finally back in style!), no harvesting grain from the corners of your fields (early attempt at Welfare maybe?), and lastly my favorites: no trimming your beards and no cutting the hair above your temples (obviously soup never became popular in OT times). Some people just want to suffer for their salvation and I think these people are really what Sobek is really griping about. What they should feel as undisputable happiness withers in the dark of guilt and perceived obligation. These are the same people who proudly smile while holding signs promising a burning Hell for sinners as if brutally frightening people to the service of a loving God is somehow sound logic. I fear and fear for those who overlook the love of the Bible and find comfort and satisfaction in the judgment aspect.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the prohibition against homosexuality is found in Leviticus 18:22. Simply stated, I disregard all of the cleanliness rules because I'm a Christian and not a Jew. I don't follow the law but instead I follow the fulfillment of the law which is best summed up in Romans 13:9-10:

13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not give false testimony,” “You shall not covet,”** and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”* 13:10 Love doesn’t harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.

The media clips from San Francisco and here in my hometown don't reveal to me a few people just trying to get some tax-breaks or even seeking legitimization of their existence, but rather I see a multitude of couples operating in the spirit of true love, and nothing that comes from love is ever evil. This is why the courts in San Francisco are requesting that the opposition groups prove "irreparable harm" before they hear a case to halt the issuance of marriage licenses. Ultimately though if we insist on using Biblical standards to affect secular government, then we will find ourselves in a similar mess to the one we are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. To judge homosexuals according to the old religious law opens us Christians up to being judged by that same rigid code of law and we will quickly find that it is a damn hard row to plow.
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Who is like Set...

1.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauties
2.0 Taiwan Beauties
2.3 Cave Beauties
0.1 Bull Snake
1.0.0 Argentine Blk & Wht Tegu
2.5 Box Turtles

Replies (2)

kick_baal Mar 02, 2004 08:48 PM

Specifically to Combs Reptile's response.
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Who is like Set...

1.1 Vietnamese Blue Beauties
2.0 Taiwan Beauties
2.3 Cave Beauties
0.1 Bull Snake
1.0.0 Argentine Blk & Wht Tegu
2.5 Box Turtles

sobek Mar 08, 2004 03:29 PM

Good post, But I do disagree with this statement you
made.

>>I don't have Sobek's hatred of religion fortunately

Please I ask you not to associate my views on
religion with hate. By no means do I "Hate" religion,
and I fully understand its purpose in the human
Psyche, and the role its played in our evolution.

I do however have a huge DISLIKE how religion "some
more then others" try to force their views upon
people, and assume that they them selves are privy to
enlightenment, and they them selves know whats better
for every one else.

All modern religious scripture Muslim/Christian etc.
are rooted in more ancient forms of worship, yet
follow similar doctrines. Dont lie, kill, steal, and
so on. The stories about death and rebirth, 2nd
comings, and the after life, all found in these text
world wide. Text so old they make books look the
bible seem very adolescent.

Religion its self had to be developed by man, and I
stress HAD TO!! Because if it was not, we would not be
where we are today. Let me explain what I mean.
Several thousand years ago a person could:

A. spend all day pondering, why the sky is blue? why
day turns to night? wtf is the sun, and so on

or..

B. Blame it on God, and spend that time, Hunting,
Farming, Fishing, and so on.

also the thought of "life after death" is comforting to humans. Its alot easier to
deal with the passing of a loved one, if you believe
you will encounter them again. Just a few reasons why
religion HAd to be made.

Most people see the downfall of religion when
religion/state became one, and this is true to an
extent. Many religion/state ran civilizations have
done quite well under this system. Ancient Egyptians
being a great example of this process.

In my personal view, the downfall of religion began
when religion merged with business. Religion itself
has always been extremely profitable, so it was only a
matter of time before people begin to pillage it.

I believe in God, I just don't have to PAY no man to be with God....

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