Reptile & Amphibian Forums

about a month ago i bought my hubby something he has been wanting for a while, a jacksons chameleon. he has been doing great and has a wonderful appetite. when i got home last night he was on the bottom of his cage half lying on the bottom and half leaned against a branch. is something wrong? what can i do. i am afraid that my hubby may be broken hearted if something happens to louie please help

Before we can even guess we need a lot more information on how he is set up, what lighting, humidity, feeding, watering, gutloads, dusting, you do. Please be specific as to brands you use and how often you use products. If you don't know the humidity level in the cage you will need to find out quickly. This does not sound good though. Are his eyes closed? If so, you need a reptile vet asap most likely. The most common mistakes are to dehydrate them, cause them too much stress from disturbance and handling, overheat them, and over or under dosing the vitamins and supplements, or not use the correct type of lighting.

curently i have a retilight on him at night and a 60 watt for the day. i have been misting him twice a day and he has a constant dripper. he has an artificial plant in the bottom of his cage and a verigated ficus. his eyes are open and he is responsive i just didn't think that it was a good sign that he is on the bottom of the cage. he is in my bedroom in a low traffic area. i am unsure of the vitamins currently being used as i am at a friends house and dont have access at the moment. just for reference could you tell me the best to use?thanks

first they should have NO light at night. When keeping captive herps (or any other animals)we need to mimic nature the best we can...they don't have lights on at night

a 60 watt light during the day is not sufficient for anything but a basking light. You need to get e repti-sun 5.0 or mercury vapor bulb. Without proper UVB rays and under or over supplementation can cause MBD (Metabolic Bone disease)

Did you and/or your husband do any research before getting this animal? They are high maintenance and not cheap to keep. Did you find a local herp vet before purchasing? there is MUCH to know about these creatures as you can tell if you have been spending anytime on this forum. I spent 3 months researching before getting my first.

As for supplements, I think Carlton would agree that we can't recommend anything until we know the age of your cham, feeding habits, etc. You said he has a dripper - have you seen him actually drink?

here are a few sites for info but please continue to ask here so we can help you get setup correctly.

www.adcham.com
http://www.chameleonnews.com/
http://www.chameleonnews.com/year2003/july2003/costs/costs.html
http://www.calumma.com/Setup Checklist.htm

we will wait for more info from you...

lele
-----
0.1 veiled - Luna
0.2 green anoles Jaida & Jetta
0.1 brown anole - Jamaica
0.2 house geckos - Gaia & Tia
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Líta

Do you have him in a glass tank or a cage?

From what you posted so far we still don't know the humidity or temps in your habitat or what your insects are eating. This is critical to know, so don't guess. Spraying twice a day for a few minutes is not enough even with a dripper. He's probably very dehydrated. The lighting you described is not correct and is probably a big part of the problem. Without the proper lighting he cannot metabolize the vitamins and minerals in his food or dusts whatever they happen to be. Insects are not usually fed well at the pet shop, so without gutloading them correctly your cham is not getting much other than a crunch. Read the sites already given. They should give you the right info. But, you will need to do this ASAP or Loui will be headed to the vet very quickly.

thank you all so much for your help. after the close call i did some research of my own yesterday and found several things that we were doing wrong. lesson learned, never let my hubby research anything. i should have known. i made a trip to petsmart and corrected the lighting and misting problems. i also used a method of hydration that i found. the tree in the shower method. he is much better today and soaking up the light from the new bulb. he is a healthy green and in the top of the cage instead of lying in the bottom. as i said, thank you all for your input and patience. i keep a veriety of pets (i'm a spider finatic myself) and was very concerned at the poor condition that he was heading toward. i'm so glad that there are places like this where a beginner can get helpful advice and feel like they are not getting critisized

That is excellent news! I'm glad you got things taken care of.
Always come here for advice. NEVER trust a Petco employee, no
matter how much of an expert they appear to be. Best of luck!

Yeah Hi, I am a Petco employee and i think your comment is straight BS maby you should talk to the person helping you and figure for yourself wether they know what they are talking about or not. Untill then keep your stereotypes to yourself, ass.

Sorry, I know you said cage, but is he in an actual cage? I've heard people refer to tanks as cages before (weird, I know) so I just wanted to make sure. Glass tanks quickly become crematoriums for Jackson's. It sounds like he is too hot to me. The bottom of the enclosure is obviously going to be a little cooler. What is his color? Is he gaping (mouth open)?

hey my jackson is gaping.. (mouth open), like u said... I think he might be having trouble locating the dripper. He is wc from madagascar, and he got shipped to me in CA from NC about 1 wk ago. He is supposedly 5 months old. I've been able to feed him water into his mouth straight from a water bottle 5 of the 6 days i've had him. He's eating good also. I keep his humidity high with a basking temp. of 80-85 degrees. Is there any problems that i can fix here?

First of all, without exception every Petco (4 or 5 in different stores) employee I've ever talked to was completely ignorant when it comes to Chameleons. I base my "stereotypes" on the fact the 9 out of 10 Chameleons I've seen in Petcos are kept in ten gallon aquariums (sometimes 2 or 3 males in one tank) full of feces and dead crickets, with a filthy bowl of bubbling water and wrong temperatures. So, I'm sorry if you took what I said as a personal attack since you work there. I base my opinions on facts and observations. Maybe I just happened upon a few bad Petcos.

Secondly, if you were such a Chameleon expert, you would know that your Jackson's didn't come from Madagascar, unless it was captive bred there.

It is widely known that most (not ALL) Pet shops treat Chameleons like crap, so I was not out of line by saying what I said. I think most posters here would agree with me. If you are an exception, then I commend you. I wish they were all like you. Next time, why don't you try making your case without name-calling.

First off that would be my roomate asking about the Jackson's as he is learning, not me. So we should not listen to anything that petshop owners have to say about chams either?... that is since the vast majority treat their chams like crap according to you. I know of several local petshops that carry expertly cared for chameleons. The last Petco I worked for had a huge rectangular tank with side vents and a screen top especially designed with chams in mind. We kept adult veileds in this cage with no health problems. The humidity and temp levels were also kept at proper limits. The Petco I work at now does not have the proper equiptment to house chams so we DO NOT ORDER them. Every Petco that i have been to either has one of thoes especially designed cages for their chams or they do not cary them,granted i have only been to a couple different stores in the area I live in. So basically the only place you should get advice from on chams is this forum? Ignore everything a petshop owner has told you and listen to a bunch of random people that ask the same questions you do? Sure there are people in this forum that are extreamly well versed in chameleon care but there are also many store employees that also know what they are talking about. And next time why dont you make your argument without trying to make people think that every Petco employee is an idiot. My boss breeds panthers for crying out loud, but hey don't listen to him he is a Petco employee. Oh and next time your in Petco try talking to the reptile specialist about the Chams insted of the cashiers and you will probably get some better information. If all the Petcos in your area are as bad as you say FILE A COMPLAINT OR SOMETHING! Try to fix the problem and maby less chams will die.
~B~

OK - Here's what I think is going on. The lighting isn't the best as the other guys said, but it sounds OK. I would leave a red light (60 watt) on at night at least until this behavior stops. The added warmth will help his immune system if there is something going on. The water sounds OK too. So it's got to be the food and vitamins. I'd guess the vitamins are the issue.

What I supplement my Veiled and Panther with is Rep Cal Calcium with Vitamin D 3X per week, Miner-All 1X a week, and Rep Cal Herptivite 1X a week. 2 days with nothing.

Jacksons are mountain chams, so they are supposed to get less vitamins than the veiled and panthers. I'd suggest Calcium 2X per week and the Herptivite 1X, and skip the Miner-All.

Finally, Jacksons do need more humidity. Try Putting your Jack's cage in a small bathroom, turn on the shower hot, and let it get steamy to really hydrate him well (again this is just while he's not feeling well - I wouldn't do that all the time).

One last thing - do bring him to a vet. That way you know you've done everything. It's terrible to lose one. Good luck!

The last post did make some good points, however I disagree on the lighting. A 60w incandescent bulb by itself during the day is not suitable. All Chameleons need proper UVA/UVB levels to metabolize their food/facilitate vitamin absorbtion. An incandescent bulb (we don't even know what kind, it might be a GE household bulb) moe than likely does not have the UV output needed for this.

You need to get a Reptisun 5.0 flourescent tube (or three) along with the basking bulb (60w - no more) on him during the day, and nothing on him at night. In the wild, Chameleons experience a temperature drop every night and Jackson's have been know to tolerate near-FREEZING temps ok. They are a montane species and will languish in higher temps. This drop in temp is a critical natural process that your Chameleon needs.

Keeping the cage 80 or so degrees all the time (day and night) could be killing him. He may be experiencing constant overheating and trying desperately to seek refuge in the coolest area when he is awake - the bottom. A good ambient temp range for Jackson's is 73-77 during the day with a basking site up to 85, and a temp drop of ten degrees or more at night. Please let us know some more details so we can help you.

thank you all.. the 60 watt that i said i use is a repti bulb not an incadacent. sorry for the confusion. the red bulb is a no light low heat bulb because i have a very cold house.... hubby usually keeps it below 69. i was unsure if it was something that should be used all the time. and i did do some research upon the realization that my hubby obviously hadnt done enough. again that all for the kind words of advice and if i should have any probs in the future i will be sure to come here first. i will also be keeping those concerned updated on his progress. thanks
jen

for all those that were concerned about my louie..... he is doing much better. i am a little concerned about the size of his cage. i think that maybe he doesn't have enough room to have a hot and cool zone. Does anyone have a plan to build your own or have any suggestions... i was thinking that maybe it would be easy to addapt the plan that we used for my columbian red tail and make something that is big enough for him. any suggestions (as long as they are not rude) are welcome... thanks