Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi, i live in eastern CT and i was wondering if anyone in the area, can recomend a place where i might be able to observe timbers in my home state, i know there is one den east of the river in Glastnbury, but i am unsure of where and i have heard there are multiple den sites in the western part of the state. if anyone could suggest a place i would greatly appreciate it. thanks in advance....Ben

Timbers are endangered species in my state of Mass as well as yours.Dens have been extirpitated by collectors in the past when it was much harder to garner info.Even the little info you posted may be enough for a good collector to decimate that site! I suggest that if you are lucky enough to find any of these animals follow the law and DONT TELL ANYONE ONLINE where the spot is....for that matter dont ask either!!Jeff

Could have sent a PM.

Excuse me!! I was mearly looking for advice from felow herpers in the area that could lend advice so i could photograph this beautiful and rare species, that i am very aware of the staus of Timbers in CT, thus the importance of myself to photograph them, you have great nerve to suggest that i am out to collect, i have been involved with several organizations in conservation of new england animals and recently in Connecticut on spotted and wood turtles and i do not appreciate your attitude twords my self and i take it as an insult so back off!!!! you don't know me or my intentions -Ben

I dont think you understand that this forum is not read by only do-gooders!! There are MANY MANY shady people pretending to be someone else so glean as much info about anything they want(who knows what that is but I bet sites of endangered herps is high on the list!).I suggested that the reason why NOONE will help you or anyone with similar requests is the danger I speak of.I NEVER said you were a collector,but even with the best of intentions you have already put one spot on the map for collectors.....I suggest that you dont do this again.
If you dont understand this why dont you check some of the history of this forum so that you will better understand what info you CAN get,what info others will give ONLINE.You may not know this but several years ago there was a commercial collector that went around New England and the northeast and decimated den sites(if you have seen one for real you know how easily this can be done).Law enforcement is not the only enforcement out there,fellow herpers have to stick together and enforce our own etiquette so that newbies that arent familiar with history wont be doomed to repeat it! Jeff

Spoonie...you too have to realize that the number one excuse posed by collectors is "just want to take pictures." Your best questions are those done via private e-mail. You will gain the trust of your fellow herpers by regular use of these forums. At sometime, you may very well be herping with some online friends. I've met and herped with some great people on these forums...I must admit too; my first post were asking for good locations that I wanted to photograph herps. My intentions, as well as yours were just to take pictures. Now I look back and realize that usually not a good enough reason to give up locations.

John Eddington

Jeff,
Sorry i am new posting to the forums, i was not aware of corruption within, there are shady people out there but i have never met any fellow herpers to be shady, i was under the impression that if you are into the hobby one would care and respect it, and yes an open forum is not a place to discuss this matter, and i do now see your point of concern, i was just taken by your first reply and was offended but i toatal see your reasoning and now i have to agree so i appologize to you!
-Ben

Ben,

I also have to come to Jeff's defense in this issue. You did release at least the general whereabouts of a den you knew and were asking others to post similar information.

You weren't trying to expose those sites to would be collectors, but you were making one public and inviting others to do the same. Those of us who have been on these fora for a number of years have seen this sort of request go awry in the past.

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Chris Harrison

If you put in even a minimum of effort to find those timbers, you would already have encountered Jeff's attitude.
Better get used to it dude, unless you hit a very unethical herper, your chances of finding those dens the way you started here is less than zero.

The population in the town you mentioned is one of the most threatened timber dens in the northeast. It is also, if I'm not mistaken, one of only two remaining populations east of the Connecticut River.
Suburban sprawl has surrounded the den and adult snakes must cross residential yards and busy roads to get to the summer habitat.
There are no contiguous population of timbers so the gene pool may suffer.
To make matters worse, the den site has been widely publisized starting with the state itself which published a pamphlet about it back in the 60s or 70s. Since then there has been a book written which provides way too specific info in its account of an amature naturalist who had a near fatal encounter at the den site. This was followed by a string of newspaper articles about a new subdivision which was encroaching on the den and blocking the route to the summer feeding areas. The names of streets were often mentioned.
Take into consideration that a determined collector could wipe out a den like that real easy when they first emerge, or later when the gravid females are out basking.

Jeff may not have given you the news gently enough, but he totally right. We're not talking ringnecks or garters here. Pay attention to what others have to say and chill the trigger finger.

PS In case you don't see it, without meaning to I pretty much gave you that den site myself.

Ben,
While Jeff may have been a bit emotional in his response to your post, his point is indeed well taken. I too live in Connecticut, know where the Timbers are, and have observed them many times. I was shown these sites by people who first took a long time to get to know me before divulging their whereabouts. Conversely, I won't take anyone to these sites, or any of my other herp sites in Connecticut either; I have to get to know a person well before I even consider such a thing. Part of the process is to do a little "research" on said individual, ie. ask folks about the person. Finally, if I'm shown a site, or am made aware of a locale for any herp, either here or elsewhere, I tend not to divulge my sources. Last year on a certain other forum on which I no longer post, certain people saw fit to snipe at me continually last year for taking this view. They called it arrogant; I call it respect for those who help me in my herp endeavors. In short get to know folks (joining CHL would be a good start, they have a website here at Kingsnake.com)and build up comraderie. Also, read up on the habits and habitat of the animal you seek, and strike out in the field yourself. You may surprise yourself with the results.

Bart Bruno

It was a guy(Joe Hughes) I met online and herped with for a year before I trusted him to watch my collection for me while I went away for work.....He stole my whole collection($15K).Bottom line is you dont know who you are dealing with online at ANY point,Jeff

I hope you were able to get satisfactory legal action against that person. When I take in time away from home, my critters go into temporary brumation cycles. Sorry to hear you lost a small fortune.

J

That is really fantastic. I love to see that, conservation at its finest! It shows compassion, ethics and intelligence. Thanks for brightening up my day a little bit

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/herp-pix

this is why i love these forums. consider:
1) an innocent if potentially harmful question by an enthusiast
2) jeff's always tactful but appropriate springing to the defense of the animals
3) support from others for same, and everyone's EXPLAINING their strong feelings, not just slinging them about, so (gasp!) education's taking place
and last,
4) "props" to spoonie, for having the emotional maturity to be objective about the responses to his post. not everyone achieves that. well done, spoonie.

everyone should feel good about participating in a forum where these kinds of things happen.

peace
terry

a
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Andy Maddox
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