Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been buying my rats from a local breeder, but i'm considering purchasing online from Rodent Pro instead.
It looks like I can get a slightly better deal purchasing mice instead of rats.
Do you guys see any benefit to feeding rats instead of mice, or is it basically a wash to feed mice of similar size?

Thanks & God bless!

Eric

I prefer to feed rats vs. mice whenever the animal will take them. They really do grow faster that way. Also, I prefer to order from c a j u n m i c e . c o m. Rodentpro is ok in terms of quality and prices, but they sometimes take several days before they ship, and more importantly, they don't vacuum pack the rodents. It's not as big of a deal for rodents with fur, but pinks and young fuzzies tend to get freezer burn really fast without the vacuum packing. I had to throw out quite a bit of stuff that I bought from rodentpro because of this.

ive got two throw my 2 cents to this,,the last time i ordered my mice from rodent pro they were vacumed seal i ordered hoppers and 600 fuzz and they were all in vacumed seal

I would switch young snakes to small adult rats when snakes are between 1 and 2 years age. At around 5 feet length snakes can move to medium adult rats. I've been pleased with frozen rodents from SAS, Germantown, NY. They are close enough to me for quick delivery.

I like to get them on rat pups and move them onto small rats.
I think snakes to grow faster on rats, and they are cheaper in the long run (feeding a med rat vs a bunch of mice)

I also supplement with chicks.

PS: I have been using rodent pro for about 6 mos now (have received 4 big shipments) and have not had a single problem.

They do only ship once a week though, on Tuesday
If you order by midnight on thursday, they will ship to following tuesday

Great question and one that isnt asked often enough!
I feed pinky mice to newborn Eastern Indigos that will accept
them, both scented and unscented.Pinkes get fed live, not
frozen/thawed.

I switch them to rat pups as soon as they are large enough to
comfortably swallow them. Rat pups lack the calcium of an rat
with hair,however, so I try to switch them to rat chubs with
eyes open and hair. I get better growth on these than the rat
pups.

My adult Easterns almost always consume exclusively RATS, from
small to LARGE(For large Eastern Males out of breeding season)
When supplies have gotten thin,I have resorted to using mice
on adult easterns, say about 8 each. This is NOT my preferred
method, rats are the best choice imo.
I supplement all my Eastern Indigos diet with the following:
Quail, Chicks, Smelt.(And it REALLY Smelt after this too!)

I feed only freshly pre-killed or frozen/thawed rodents and
chicks.

Deans right, better growth comes from rats, mice are like
Angora rabbits, ALL FUR and no substance.Remind me of crickets

Hope this helped

Sincerely,

Fred
Albury

forgot to mention, anything without bones (pinks, rat pups)
I dust with calcium

Excuse my ignorance Fred, but what is Smelt? Also, I have been thinking about adding some quail or chicks to my Indigo's diet but I was afraid he would never go back to mice (which now I have learned that I should be feeding him rats). Have you ever found an issue with this?

Thanks,
-----
Gregory S. Hake

very STINKY fish.

I would not worry about getting an adult eastern indigo "hooked" on birds or anything else. Although I've had this happen with Pituophis...I have NEVER seen it in indigos.

They like rodents too much.

Greg,

There is no such thing as ignorance in a person that is SEEKING knowledge. I am constantly being taught by others,on a daily basis. I think that when we dont think we can learn from anyone else, THEN we truly become ignorant.

As for your question about chicks, I have found that once indigos reach a size to feed on rats, if they are offered CHICK or QUAIL first, they will often REFUSe to eat both rats and mice(As you mentioned) But, in my expereince, if they are fed a diet of rats, which is occasionally supplemented by chicks or qualil, or even smelt, they tend to go back to the original food item without much trouble, as long as they werent started on chicks. I truly beeive they prefer chicks, but they are such gluttons that none of mine have ever went on a hunger strike for any appreciable legth of time until they got what they REALLY wanted.
One note...chicks make for messy feces, smelt make for even messier feces. But, we know this getting into it, and in the end it is all worth it...to have Indigos.....

*Cheers*

Fred Albury

And we are appaently ALL learning here. I've personally never had that happen, but if you have, then I'd watch out for it. Especially with young snakes that tend to be more "impressionable" (like teenagers)

I have had yt cribos get hooked on chicks...but never eastern indigos. As a matter of fact, although my indigos will take chicks, they really seem to prefer rats.

One of my big breeder males actually now REFUSES chicks. It's weird. He used to like them. Now even when he's very hungry, he'll rush up and grab in the usual indigo fashion, then spit it out when he discovers it's a chick.

He's a "rat" guy...

(Disclaimer to all PETA members:The above title is just a term.In no way do I advocate the skinning of cats, feline or otherwise. I actually disdain the wearing of fur, except by supermodels on runways, then its ok )

Dean, you have hit the nail on the proverbial head,Indigos are individual anmals, with their own quirks and eccentricites, just like us! Even though many follow patterns of behaviour that we grow accustomed to, they surprise us sometimes with what we consider abherrant behaviour. Like I said,just when I think I have it down to a science, they poop and mess it all up.

Laughing,

Fred Albury

Posted by: Fred Albury at Fri Mar 5 14:29:40 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Greg,

There is no such thing as ignorance in a person that is SEEKING knowledge. I am constantly being taught by others,on a daily basis. I think that when we dont think we can learn from anyone else, THEN we truly become ignorant.

As for your question about chicks, I have found that once indigos reach a size to feed on rats, if they are offered CHICK or QUAIL first, they will often REFUSe to eat both rats and mice(As you mentioned) But, in my expereince, if they are fed a diet of rats, which is occasionally supplemented by chicks or qualil, or even smelt, they tend to go back to the original food item without much trouble, as long as they werent started on chicks. I truly beeive they prefer chicks, but they are such gluttons that none of mine have ever went on a hunger strike for any appreciable legth of time until they got what they REALLY wanted.
One note...chicks make for messy feces, smelt make for even messier feces. But, we know this getting into it, and in the end it is all worth it...to have Indigos.....

*Cheers*

Fred Albury

Well guys, I always feed mice. [till now] Indiies jaws don't expand very well so I just assumed mice was the ticket. And given the fact that they can be a bit picky from time to time, I thought it best not to mix it up. But I can see now that I will be revising this plan, and making some adjustments.
I feed mice with an occasional sprinkle of rep-cal. Thats it. My snakes are 1.5 yrs old and right at 5 ft. Aint that about right?
Tony.

I'm jealous! I hear all these stories about 5 footers in 1 to 1.5 years & just don't get it. My 02 female is only 3ft long but stocky. She just doesn't seem to want to eat more than once every 7-10 days, sometimes she'll go 2 weeks between feedings. My 03 female is a better eater and is catching up length wise, but still isn't what i'd call a voracious feeder.
I've got to figure out a way to get this girls to feed more often & get some size on them. I hope they don't end up like they're owner, SHORT... I'm only 5' 5" and i'm WAY over a year old!
Any suggestions on getting them to feed more often???

Thanks!

Eric

My 02 Male is probably only about 3.5' long. I was wondering if he should be bigger also. He is not the monster eater that some describe their Indigos as. My King eats more than him. I have noticed though that my male will NOT eat sometimes 2 weeks prior to blue, he just bulldozes them around. He also seems very unsettled until I take them out when he does this. It also seems to take him a long time to go through this period. I am hoping that my guy will start growing more this year, maybe some rats will do it.
-----
Gregory S. Hake

Feeding is directly linked to metabolism. Which is controled by several things. Temperature is the main one and hormones is next. Hormonal changes occur prior to and during shedding which shut down the feed response, and during mating, but I don't think that's the problem. These are temporary issues and yours sounds a bit more chronic. First what are the exact temps in your cages, in all ares of the cages? Also some snakes are just born to be whimpy. Thats just the way it is. In nature they would probably die. And what are they eating, and what is the diet of the prey items? How where they fed? The prey items may not be all too healthy. I always buy from a place where I can go in and see the operation and know the diet of the prey animals. Well fed healthy rodents make for well fed healthy snakes.
Tony.

Afterthought,... My snakes have been in full size cages for about a year now. {6'x2'x2'} I believe that the size of their environment makes a difference as well. At some point I will be giving them an even bigger enclosure, but right now, this is all I have room for. In the wild, these animals cover enormous teritories, so I'd like to try and accomidate their needs as best I can.
I just measured the pair of them,.. female at 4'6", and male at 5' even. They don't much care to be measured. LOL.
Tony.

Snakeman, I can't argue with what you are doing.

I fed my holdback 2002 snakes from the same clutches rats and they are about 4.5', but yours are bigger.

I always thought bigger was better for growth and I still think it generally true, but indy's may actually grow just as well on smaller food, since they are such a fast metabolism animal.

I still like to use rats b/c you feed fewer animals.

Some of this size thing is genetics too.

My adult sotck is big. My SMALLEST breeder FEMALE is 6'6"
I have one 6'10" and my biggest is 7'1" (yes a female couperi!)
I know Chuck had some 7' females back in the day, but they are very uncommon.

Shes gravid right now...and gave me 15 fertile eggs in 2002! (last year she had the year off)

This snake is at least 12 years old, and probably closer to 15 and still producing !

I got her 5 years ago. The previous owner had her for about 5 years, and got her as a 6' adult! He had trid to breed her many times with no luck...but didn't cycle properly. She's been reproducing great ever since I've had her.

Indigos are really not fast growing snakes.

I have a pair of 2001 holdbacks that are 5'8" (male) and 5'6" (female). They are thick...but still have no where near the body mass of an adult, and I may not even breed the female in the fall of 2004...unless she is real close to 6' and puts on a lot of mass. I'm starting to think 4 years old is ideal for the first mating. 3 is pushing it a bit.

My 2002 holdbacks are all between 4' and 4'6".

On the other hand, I have a 2002 n. pine snake that's alrady 5' and taking large rats!

Well Eric I can't give you much on the opinion of mice vs. rats because I have learnt that maybe I should be feeding my Indigo rats. He is 1.5 yrs old and I have just always fed him mice because I had other snakes that ate mice and I bought stock piles of mice from Rodent Pro. I wish you asked this question a year ago.

I have purchased from Rodentpro several times and have had good experiences with them. My mice came in freezer ziplock bags, they may have not been vacuum sealed but the air was sucked out of them. They are packed well with dry ice Oh, hint: don't ever put dry ice in your freezer, I put the whole box in my chest freezer over night and breathing the air in the next day bending over to get them out practically burnt my lungs. It smeeled like an amonia or something. I used a wet/dry vac to suck out the air because cold air sinks and it would rise out of the freezer.

Well, it looks like I will be ordering some rats.
-----
Gregory S. Hake

I have successfully switched all my Dry's to frozen store bought chicken pieces! Lowered my food bill by $100's/mos with all the monsters I've got...I use drumsticks, and cut up wing pieces for smaller snakes...Easterns, TX, Yt's , BT's, Uni's all love it!

Much less poop!! And they love it! Thaw a few and put them in a bag with a thawed rodent and feed liberally!!

I'm not kidding, try it, your snakes will love you for it!! I still give them a rodent every few feedings, but now there is an extremely cheap way to feed these food processors!!
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Carl W Gossett
Garage Door Herps
Monument,Colorado...northern territory of the Great Republic of Texas

I'd love to see a picture of an Eastern eating a piece of chicken :^)
Don't they miss out on the other nutrients from eating a whole animal?

I'll confirm this. I've used drumsticks and even a turkey neck for my big bog. I usually do about 50/50 rodent to poultry. Sometimes if I think my rodents are starting to be frozen for too long I'll just go back to all rodents.

Doug T

>>I have successfully switched all my Dry's to frozen store bought chicken pieces! Lowered my food bill by $100's/mos with all the monsters I've got...I use drumsticks, and cut up wing pieces for smaller snakes...Easterns, TX, Yt's , BT's, Uni's all love it!
>>
>>Much less poop!! And they love it! Thaw a few and put them in a bag with a thawed rodent and feed liberally!!
>>
>>I'm not kidding, try it, your snakes will love you for it!! I still give them a rodent every few feedings, but now there is an extremely cheap way to feed these food processors!!
>>-----
>>Carl W Gossett
>>Garage Door Herps
>>Monument,Colorado...northern territory of the Great Republic of Texas

I try to give my adult indigos a lot of variety, within reason. My adults are currently being offered: large retired adult mice, small to medium rats, 1-week quail and the occasional baby bunny. If I was feeding either mice or rats, though, I would probably lean towards a rat diet.