Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I go through the classified here a few times a day, seeing what is out there basically. And, for the most part, the prices for the different morphs is fairly close. But then there are some people who want a few hunred dollars for maybe a 75 dollar leo. Now in all honesty, do people think that just because big breeders/well known breeders can charge $200 for a GREAT looking tangerine leo, does than mean EVERY tangerine is worth $200? I don't think so. Or I have seen some people starting to refer to normal leos as, "Olive" colored, and again try to get more money. Most leos are a "high-yellow" With the exception of my two albinos, and my dark colored normal, all my other leos (5) are what you would call a high yellow. They have a lot of yellow, and not a ton of spots. So when I see people wanting $150 for a high yellow, it makes me think that they are just trying to get more money than the little guys are worth. I guess this is all my opinion, but I think some people have gone way overboard with pricing. Seeing that normals are no longer the most common looking leo now, and that people are calling them a special name as well just to get a few extra dollars. Oh and another thing that is amazing to me, is when I was looking for patternless albinos, Garrett on crestedgecko.com and a few other big sites had them all priced from $150-$200 which is about normal for them. But then I read on the classifides and other places with people selling some PA's that look like much lower quality than for example Garrett's for $250 ! If I could get a great looking PA for around $200 from someone with tons of positive recommendations, why would I spend over $250 from someone who doesn't even have a site or is very well known? Ahh i guess this is a rant for the night. I apologize if I rambled to much. Somethings just amaze me...
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-Kristen

0.7 Leopard Gecko (Buttercup, Beaker, Beauty, Blaze, Bubbles, Blinkers, and Squiggles {yeah I broke with the B's, but her head has black squiggles on it!!!})
1.1 Fat Tail Gecko (Bell and Bowser {I've got egg!!!!})
0.1 Deformed Leopard Gecko (Gimpy)

Proud owner and operator of a Powerbook G4! Why use windows, when I can use Panther? It even sounds better.

i think this whole breeding thing is getting out of hand. There are folks who are barely in highschool breeding animals. I agree that no-name starter breeders are trying to get an extra buck and cashing in on this reptile craze.
However, with all these crazy morphs these days i'm worried that pretty soon too many geckos are going to be more geckos produced than bought. When i got mine, jungle was the $300 morph and albinos were in the thousands. In the next 4 years, one site has show cased about 32 different morphs.
What i'm wondering is that if this mad race to create more morphs continues vets are going to have to find a way to spay/neuter the poor leos. I mean look what happened to the dalmation, one of the most inbred and sadly stupid dogs, bred to the extreme to keep their spots.
I'm not saying people should stop breeding and learning about these animals. But im saying lets leave it to the pros and calm down before you all end up with 20 ravinous babies and no homes.

Im not a basher but i think kids getting into them is great!!! As far as attempting to breed them i think its alright to because its exiting you have to think of it this way it is true most people especially younger people get into them because they are cool and second to breed them. But how many actually get eggs? Then how many hatch them out? If you stick to just the pro's breeding them jungles would still be hundreds and albino would still be thousands.. I love my albinos and WOULD NOT have one if they stayed at that price. And i dont see gecko's overpopulating the reptile world. Gecko's dont take much space, can be kept in groups, unexspencive to feed, easy to maintain.
Im no expert and am relatively new to the gecko craze i was always a boid person. But i am pretty sure it would be impossible for most people to only have 1 gecko im addicted by a swoop of the petstore i came home with 6 leopards. And a week later was plotting on more lol. As long as you can take proper care of your gecko's i dont see it hurting to have a hundred.. Leos arent much into being handle they just like to be looked at and learned about..
Jason

thanks for the reply i really enjoyed it
I'm glad you avidly love leopards, however there seems to be more and more ppl out there using them as quick cash. Also whats the fun of buying a leopard when its already grown. They're so much cuter when they're hatchlings and you can watch them and raise them.
But what i see a lot of on this forum is ppl asking for help how to build breeding setups. Its like leopard gecko grow opts (maybe that's a canadian term). I bet many ppl here including me, haven't witnessed their geckos full lifespan (ie, had one die) and decide on breeding.
I guess i just feel uncomfortable with so many ppl play god.

Great point. BABIES ARE BETTER.I like to raise my pets from babies. I have
0.0.1 Baby albino leo
0.0.2 baby blizzard leo's
0.0.1 baby leucistic leo

and your point is??

I bought most of my animals as adults, and TREAT them like babies. I just bought 2 bunnies last week, adults, and I cuddle them, and rock them just like they were babies.
So I honestly dont see your point with that statement. I enjoy watching my animals personality, I dont necessarily HAVE to watch it grow in order to do so (which I have done btw), its a fun experience though...but I still dont know why its WRONG to buy adults??

~Crystal
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Crystal Light (Yes..that's my real name)
&
Dusty Windom (Yeap..that's my real name, too)

*Whenever you lose a gecko, just think of it as God building on his own Leopard Gecko collection

The Gecko Barn

Not to be rude, but what is your definition of "pro". I dont know if thats a very fair statement. Would you consider them "pro" just because they sell alot of animals? Or is it that they have good business and treat their animals and customers right?
Being a pro isnt judged by what morphs you sell, or any of that. Its judge by your popularity, good salesmanship, good advertising to get your name out there.

Well...just because they are well known says nothing.
It took them some time to get there also.
And there are smaller breeders/hobbyists who dont sell as many leos or as nice as leos, but still give their customers their best, and treat their animals top notch, they just put all of their money into their animals, and cant really afford to pay for a kingsnake.com advertisment, or build a fancy website....we are not all rich ya know.

So IMHO, there are alot of "pro's" out there that just havent been discovered yet.

~Crystal
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Crystal Light (Yes..that's my real name)
&
Dusty Windom (Yeap..that's my real name, too)

*Whenever you lose a gecko, just think of it as God building on his own Leopard Gecko collection

The Gecko Barn

YOU must be reading a different post I didnt see anywhere where it said PURCHASING ADULT LEOS IS "WRONG". A form is to state opinions, information, and questions. Therefor i was stating my opinion I LIKE TO BUY MY GECKOS AS BABIES. I CONSIDER a pro to be someone thats been consistantly in the REPTILE BUSINESS for over 10yrs, with customer satisfaction, and high quality animals. Posting classified on Kingsnake.com or having a fancy website is just advertising doesnt make you a pro. Its simply a tool of the reptile business trade. Im sure you can be just as happy with buying a adult as buying a babie. You are right not everyone is rich.
Jason

I was not refering to you, I was refering to Snark's statement.
I just makes my blood boil when people put down the "small" breeders just because they are giving it a try. I see nothing wrong with that.
And no, he didnt say it was wrong to purchase an adult, but made it seem that way.

But I do agree, some animals are way overpriced....BUT...if that person feels that animal is worth it to them, why not?
Unless of course its JUST for the money, and they're not actually trying to get the animal a good home. Id lower my prices in a HEARTBEAT if I found the perfect home for my babies.
I may not have 10 years under my belt, but when it comes to caring and loving my animals, I AM a pro!

~Crystal
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Crystal Light (Yes..that's my real name)
&
Dusty Windom (Yeap..that's my real name, too)

*Whenever you lose a gecko, just think of it as God building on his own Leopard Gecko collection

The Gecko Barn

I'm not telling all the small breeders to stop and leave it to the Man. Actually i'd rather buy from a small independent company than gecko mills. But what i am saying is that its so easy for ppl to breed them, without knowing the consequences. I've read some posts where ppl don't know what to feed their geckos or their geckos food. Someone even bought a gravid gecko. Every other post on here is asking how to make an incubator.
I'm saying don't give into the gecko fever until you know what you're doing. And don't get too flustered from these posts until you read them throughly. We're all just trying to have stimulating conversations, without making enemies.

Kristen you have to look at both sides of the table..
The Sellers have to compete with each other so of course prices range. Leopards are so widely breed thats its hard to keep the market up on them. Plus you have to consider that shipping is a extra $35 some sellers relize this and some dont. Compared to buying one at a reptile show or even petstore. Personally i wouldnt buy 1 gecko online I would have to make a couple hundred dollar order on a couple geckos for me to even consider paying shipping.. Every gecko is different incolor and quality so I can understand the price range but some of these breeders are trying to become rich off thier pets... If you notice most these sellers keep the same animals up for sale for months before they move due to they are asking top dollar. Like most people im not trying to buy morph animals at morph prices im buying hets trying to produce morphs my self because some of the prices are out of my reach. I buy babies from wholesaler they are healthy, economical when i get them and their quality improves with time in my possesion. Well as you can notice i have many thoughts on this how about everyone else?
Jason

i realize that some people charge top dollar prices for geckos, but noone actually has to pay it, if u simply shop around u can find awesome geckos priced between 30-60 bucks let those people charge crazy prices, fine by me as long as i dont buy it...i'm now breeding leos (first clutch a week ago) and i plan on selling them, however, i will just take peoples offers and whoever wants to pay what can...honestly, i dont wanna make money, if i have an awesome female and someone offers me 120 bucks for it, i'll take it, if someone offers me 40, fine...the money goes toward taking care of my leos anyway
by the way i have seen geckos lesser than mine go for over 200 and mine cost 25, 25, 35, and 70

chris

I agree with that. Its simple economics.

I'm not worried with most of the ppl on this forum, since most of you replying seem to be knowledgable ppl.
However, i'm finding a lot of other ppl breeding because they see someone selling their whatever crazy morph for $850 US.
In the last 4 years that i've seen the leopard gecko ppl have sped up evolution for this animal, and many others,hundred fold. Are ppl even keeping these guys as pets anymore? Or are they all stored away in plastic drawers until they're ready to breed.

I'm looking at Garrett's page right now. The sub 200 prices you're quoting he has listed are ones with "slightly malformed eyes" "regenerated tails" and "slight tail kinks" disclosed.

So are you really basing your statement that you'd rather spend less money with a bigger name on the fact that you can buy non breeder quality animals from them for less?
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E2MacPets
http://www.e2macpets.com

There are also some for $200 that are perfectly fine. I don't think a slight tail kink makes the leo any less beautiful. Many of his "perfect" ones are 200-225 full grown with wonderful colors. As opposed to someone who emailed me and wanted 250 for a juvi with colors that looks just like a plain patternless. I plan on buying one from Garrett and one of the two I'm looking at have tail kinks. I think they have great color, and the tail thing doesn't matter to me. And in my first post I said from $150-200 so that would include those two or three good looking females on his site that he asking $200 for. And since I don't breed my leos, and it will be a while before I ever really feel like it. Yes I'd like to buy GOOD looking leos from a big name with tons of great recomendations than an okay one from someone I've never heard of. And I've seen breeders breed leos with tail kinks with it not affecting their offspring. Someone right now has a male up for sale (can't remember the site, if I can find it I'll post) who is a gorgeous HT/CT with a tail kink that they bred without any problems. The eye probles, yeah I wouldn't buy nor would I breed them, but a tail kink isn't a huge problem. Especially if I'm buying them AS A PET. I don't have the room to breed so I just want pets.
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-Kristen

0.7 Leopard Gecko (Buttercup, Beaker, Beauty, Blaze, Bubbles, Blinkers, and Squiggles {yeah I broke with the B's, but her head has black squiggles on it!!!})
1.1 Fat Tail Gecko (Bell and Bowser {I've got egg!!!!})
0.1 Deformed Leopard Gecko (Gimpy)
0.1 Leopard Gecko that lives at my boyfriend's house, but whom I still pay for food...lol (Dexter)

Proud owner and operator of a Powerbook G4! Why use windows, when I can use Panther? It even sounds better.

I've personally witnessed genetic kink tails. And I would never buy one even as a pet. You state that it doesn't make it any less attractive to you, but the fact is it is a flawed animal and purchasing flawed animals only encourages the breeders to continue producing flawed animals as long as they know they have an outlet for them.

I have 30 glass tanks of a variety of sizes used for my breeding stock. In the same amount of space I could fit 8 racks and hold over 100 more geckos than in the space now. Do you think with the difference in overhead I should price my animals to be competitive with someone mass producing their animals? Now imagine someone that has a retail outlet and the overhead involved with that, should they remain competitive with the wholesalers?

A seller has every right to price their products where they feel comfortable pricing them. If you don't like the price, don't buy from them. Don't insult them for it.

I think its outrageous that you would come down on someone for pricing an animal that is healthy but not as colorful as they feel fit, and use a cheaper deformed animal that is more colorful as justification.

Kink tails are defomities. And they are genetic in many cases. Don't fool yourself into believing anything else. You are supporting the breeding of deformed animals for bargain prices. And you are outraged at those who won't compete with deformed animals.
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E2MacPets
http://www.e2macpets.com

I am 15 years old. I've been with leos for 3, 4 years. I've always had them as pets and now I am starting to breed them and start a small business. I am not going to bash big retailers, because thats how they make a living. Personally, however, I would buy from a small business, or local breeder. On Ron Tremper's site, over $1000 for a giant, I think is a bit outrageous, but I don't have a problem with that-- I just wont buy one. Sure you pay more for names. You can get shirts at Wal-Mart for $3, but go to a sports store and buy a nike shirt for $50. Alot of it has to do with the name. I feel that yeah, some large scale breeders might treat their animals as machines, stored in plastic bins, and thats why I prefer smaller breeders. I get the impression from them that they put forth love and care into raising their animals and treating them right. I see both the pros and cons of small, and large scale breeders. My point is, if you want a name, you have to pay premium. These 'brand name' leos may be more attrative, but that comes from the resources alloted for the breeders. Everyone has to start off small, and grow into a large business. If you don't like the prices, don't buy the leos. I know its tempting, and you want the best, well start small and grow.

I know I kinda went slightly off track, but so did the other posts. This is just how I feel, and everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Michael