Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i know this may seem gruesome to some people,but has anyone ever fed their ally snap another turtle?and if so how do they go about eating it?

Are you just asking because your curious, or because you want to try it? Please do not feed it other turtles.
Chris
-----
Hey whats up, I'm Chris and I currently have 1.0 Softy, 0.0.1 Midland Painted, 1.0 Bearded Dragon

Why not?
-----
Martin Whalin
My Email

Quotes from guys named Carl:

"Science stops at the frontier of logic. Nature does not, she thrives on ground as yet untrodden by theory."
-Carl Jung

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld

Theres no rason too. There are plenty of other foods that are easily available. A good staple is fish and pinkies/mice/rats. You can also throw in some beef heart or any other lean meats. Some will even eat fruits like bannanas or squash.
Chris
-----
Hey whats up, I'm Chris and I currently have 1.0 Softy, 0.0.1 Midland Painted, 1.0 Bearded Dragon

There are plenty of other foods besides fish. Why feed fish?
-----
Martin Whalin
My Email

Quotes from guys named Carl:

"Science stops at the frontier of logic. Nature does not, she thrives on ground as yet untrodden by theory."
-Carl Jung

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld

i'm just curious but who knows in the future,if i get my hands on some red ears i might just throw one in with my ally...
if you have a good reason for me not to i'm listening...

i just read your post above mine chris,i dunno maybe i'm just the kinda guy that likes watching my blackthroat wolf down live baby chics or chasing mice or watching my ally eat a frog or waterdog,your right,there is no NEED to feed turtles to other turtles,i personally have never seen this happen and must admit my curiousity is getting the best of me,and don't see it as a big deal,if you do maybe you should also go to the kingsnake forum and tell those guys not to feed other snakes to their kingsnakes,you see where i'm going with this?it's not right,it's not wrong,it's either you do or you don't...

0.1.0 macroclemys temminckii
1.0 varanus albigularis ionidesi
0.1 python curtus

np

you're right. you either do or you don't. but another alternative could be to find a dead one off the road,freeze it to kill the parasites. I'm not sure at what size they start preying on turtles. Steve

it's important to freeze roadkill for at least two weeks. lol
-----
Martin Whalin
My Email

Quotes from guys named Carl:

"Science stops at the frontier of logic. Nature does not, she thrives on ground as yet untrodden by theory."
-Carl Jung

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld

"i dunno maybe i'm just the kinda guy that likes watching my blackthroat wolf down live baby chics or chasing mice or watching my ally eat a frog or waterdog"

Well I'm not that kind of guy. However, I really have never understood food preujudice. People just throw these designations on certain animals. And don't stop to rationalize. Cows you can eat. Rats you can't. Rat's you can't eat because they are dirty. Well they wouldn't be if you cleaned them. Dogs you can't eat cause their friendly. Hmmm... Haven't seen to many vicous cattle or sheep. Bugs you can't eat cause their creepy. Nothing creepy about that lobster dinner, huh? Snappers can't eat turtles because it's wrong and sick. I highly doubt the snapper that just wolfed down a nice baby turtle in the wild felt to wrong or sick about. I bet he felt good. And if he felt good, well than by god, that must make it good. There, I proved it. Not only is it not wrong to feed a turtle to a turtle, it's good!
-----
Martin Whalin
My Email

Quotes from guys named Carl:

"Science stops at the frontier of logic. Nature does not, she thrives on ground as yet untrodden by theory."
-Carl Jung

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld

its a moral issue, and although i wouldnt be the one wanting to feed the live mice, chicks, or turtles, its definately possible. They definately do in the wild, and with an animal you are supposed to match up the diets according to the wild. so it maybe gross for you to watch but it isn't for them. So if you do the live food thing, its fine, and it not its fine too. but i wouldnt tell people that they shouldnt because theres no reason for it or whatever.

I never said it was wrong, just that I saw no reason for it. I think comparing kingsnakes to snappers eating turtles is a little different. Im by no means an expert and am not all up on snakes. But I believe kingsnakes almost completly rely on other snakes as food in the wild. Alys dont rely on other turtles as there main source of food. Just my 2 cents.
Chris
-----
Hey whats up, I'm Chris and I currently have 1.0 Softy, 0.0.1 Midland Painted, 1.0 Bearded Dragon

hmmmm...comparing them is a lil different eh?iv'e dabbled in kingsnakes a lil bit,and from what I KNOW of their diet in the wild,it will consist of mice,lizards,birds,frogs,and other snakes,i don't know where you heard they rely on a diet that consists primarily of other snakes,not only is that ridiculous but to make a statement of such a diverse species is also ignorant,you didn't offer any information,but were quick to give your opinion,i don't post on here so you can tell me what you think i shouldn't do with out any experience or knowledge to back yourself up,i post just so i can get some answers...

I stated in the post that I wasnt posative of what I posted. I was in question, and was looking for a reply to either correct me or tell my that I was at least warm. I take no offense to the post, by no means do I want to get into another heated argument like so many do in Kingsnake. Maybe I shouldnt have posted because I was in question, but I did. So please do not think that I was stating a fact.
Chris
-----
Hey whats up, I'm Chris and I currently have 1.0 Softy, 0.0.1 Midland Painted, 1.0 Bearded Dragon

to answer the original questions snappers can and will eat other tutles. i wouldn't worry about doin it often (costly) and also because the turtle could fight back. but it is another food alternative. whether you do or not depends on how you feel about the issue. i think that is a good way to sum it up because everyone has their own opinion on how to take care of their snapper.

Its ok to feed garter snakes to kingsnakes because as most people refer to them as "junk snakes" in the places I've been.
Its not ok to feed a turtle to a snapper because turtles are pets too. (but don't peeps keep garters as pets?)
Now, according to Martin's reply up there, (which I totally agree with)...
Cow=good but rat=bad.. while deployed in Kosovo, we had a vendor that sold hamburgers, that we called rat-burgers, and as it turns out they were a mix of rat, cow and sheep when he got busted by the MPs...
Bugs=bad... lots of countries and cultures consider bugs a delicacy..I've tried it, and liked it...
Now there are places selling baby RES for 4 bucks when less than 4 inches... Thats about as cheap as a few pinkies...and why not feed a baby RES to a snapper... its probably a better ending to it, than it would get at the hands of some uneducated parent and their six year old...

I feed my snappers whatever crosses my path, lizards, worms, bugs, geckos, crickets...you name it. I've done the pinkies, beefheart, snail, and chicken liver...they love it. When they get larger, I'll go to the lake and catch some watersnakes and such... and if I get a baby RES...it might be food too.

Now I know I'll catch some flak for this thread...but all he did was ask a question... and maybe the voyueristic part of all of us is wondering how much of a fight a baby res would put up in a tank against a 8 inch snapper... I know I'm wondering that right now...

(just some more inane rambling due to the lack of sleep )
-----
Coastal Carpet Python 0.1 (Lillith)
Albino Burm 0.1 (Kimba)
Columbian RedTail 0.1 (Squishy)
Kenyan Sand Boa 1.0 (Shai'hulud)
Common Snapping Turtle 1.1 (Sherman and Abrahms)
RES 1.0 (speedy)

My concerns are simply how and why? From a natural stand point there is nothing ethically wrong with it. It is a viable source of prey. I would make sure that the prey item is of appropriate size however. Too large and you could cause undue suffering to the prey and possible injury or death to your Alli. As a reptile keeper I feel it is our responsibility to dispatch prey animals as humanely as possible, be that by cervical dislocation or other human induced means, or natural means such as invenomation or constriction, etc. For anotherturtle this may not be possible to be done humanely if the prey is too large.
Also as reptile keepers we should be warry of what we feed our animals out of public sensitivity and to avoid negative publicity when ever possible. While ethically I feel feeding unwanted domestic pets which are to be euthanised any how to a large constrictor is fine, but societal hang-ups make this not such a good idea for the sake of the hobby. This is the territory you may be walking on the edge of.

Now if you were to feed other turtles simply out of morbid curiousity I would have a problem with it. Just because the device is another living animal, it would be no different than torturing rats with a hack saw or decapitating kittens in the basement with a rusty machette. The fact you can call it feeding could just be used as a crutch for justification. Killing things for the sake of masochistic perversity is morally and ethically wrong.

GD
-----
I don't believe in luck. Luck is God covering your a** when you screw up.

"Now if you were to feed other turtles simply out of morbid curiousity I would have a problem with it. Just because the device is another living animal, it would be no different than torturing rats with a hack saw or decapitating kittens in the basement with a rusty machette. The fact you can call it feeding could just be used as a crutch for justification. Killing things for the sake of masochistic perversity is morally and ethically wrong."

Great paragraph! However there is a justifiable scientific interest in seeing how an animal feeds. Personally, I can pretty much imagine it so I would probably euth it first.
-----
Martin Whalin
My Email

Quotes from guys named Carl:

"Science stops at the frontier of logic. Nature does not, she thrives on ground as yet untrodden by theory."
-Carl Jung

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld

You make an interesting point about scientific study. Yes many animals have died as a result of scientific study. Without the demise of many, many animals we would not know near enough about taxonomical diferences, natural diets, etc. which we take for granted. But it goes back to individual purpose and intention. You could call torturing rats with a hacksaw disection for scientific study, but if that is just a veil for justification of ones true alterior motives, it's still just torturing rats, regardless of what you call it.

In essence you point out a legitimate third answer to the question why, but it can still be used as a crutch, like feeding could be.

GD
-----
I don't believe in luck. Luck is God covering your a** when you screw up.

>>You make an interesting point about scientific study. Yes many animals have died as a result of scientific study. Without the demise of many, many animals we would not know near enough about taxonomical diferences, natural diets, etc. which we take for granted. But it goes back to individual purpose and intention. You could call torturing rats with a hacksaw disection for scientific study, but if that is just a veil for justification of ones true alterior motives, it's still just torturing rats, regardless of what you call it.
>>
>>In essence you point out a legitimate third answer to the question why, but it can still be used as a crutch, like feeding could be.
>>
>>GD
>>-----
>>I don't believe in luck. Luck is God covering your a** when you screw up.
-----
Martin Whalin
My Email

Quotes from guys named Carl:

"Science stops at the frontier of logic. Nature does not, she thrives on ground as yet untrodden by theory."
-Carl Jung

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld

Chris was right. With the Kingsnake thing. You were right in that they do eat all of those things you mentioned, but they do rely on snakes. Those are the first things they eat as babies and the main thing they eat as adults. In captivity though, most people stick them with a rodent diet. My two cents on the Alligator Snapper to eat other turtles. It's possible, by all means you can try it, but you should listen to alot of the people on here. Somebody mentioned maybe a road killed turtle, maybe do that, there are tons of turtles killed on the roads each year. In the wild Alligator Snappers would most likely be able to eat a smaller turtle in their second year of life, but chances of them doing it are slim. They aren't too fast to catch most aquatic turtles unless one maybe sat right in front of it.
Michael
Michael's Place

I'm not talking live. Like someone said earlier, any prey item from the wild should be frozen for a few weeks.
-----
Martin Whalin
My Email

Quotes from guys named Carl:

"Science stops at the frontier of logic. Nature does not, she thrives on ground as yet untrodden by theory."
-Carl Jung

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld

ummm herphelmz,they may eat each other right after birth,they may have a steady diet of other snakes(not every species of king) in the wild,but still is not vital or necesary,you really think a oppurtunistic snake like a king would die if the population of other snakes thinned?either way i'm in the desert and their is a higher abundance of lizards than snakes so i'm not sure if the kings here have a "main"diet of other snakes...
and as far as feeding another turtle to my ally,i don't think i'm gonna,but if i do i know a place were i used to catch res,i'd probably go get one of those,freeze it then feed it...

So I suppose you would simply justify this act because "it happens in the wild." That seems to be most of the motivation for such acts in captivity. Well, maybe I should just feed my horned frogs other live horned frogs. After all, that is all that their natural diet consists of. As well, maybe people that have large anacondas should feed them caimans. People on the kingsnake forum usually do not feed them other snakes. Most of the time they feed them mice, unless they are trying to switch them over. Everything that happens in the wild doesn't count anymore. The animals are not wild. They are in captivity. Therefore, there is no real justification for feeding them turtles. My take on it. Personally, I do not feed a reptile other reps or amphibs unless it is required (IE coral snake). I personally like all reptiles, whether it be the most common red ear or something extremely rare. I don't see how people that could refrain from feeding a turtle another turtle would do it just for the hell of it without an basis, other than "it is what happens in the wild" which actually doens't even matter anymore. And besides, as others mentioned, good way to give your turtle parasites.
-----
Andy Maddox
AIM: SurfAndSkimTx04
MSN: Poloboy32486@hotmail.com
Yahoo:surfandskimtx04
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

Got to agree with the sides saying this is stupid. What real pleasure do you get from seeing other animals die. I don'think anyone here questions that snapping turtles (and most other herps for that matter) are obligate carnivores. But to see just what the extent of your turtles need to feed is, well its nothing short of sadistic.

I love my hamburgers and fried chicken. Certainly, IF I had to procure my own food I would do so, but I would not take perverse pleasure in ending another life.

I own over 50 snakes, 10 turtles, and 20 odd amphibians and do educational programs at schools, colleges, and many other venues. I feed most of my animals frozed food, other than those which need live like the amphibians, so that's what they get. Anyone who has ever owned a snapper knows that eating is not a problem for them. In fact, mine is pretty much my recycle bin. If my snakes don't eat, Charlie gets an extra frozen thawed mouse.

I do have three snakes who will ONLY take live, despite my best efforts. So, live is what they get.

Also remember, just becuase you can get RES in pet stores, they are not as common in the wild as they used to be. Most of us here appreciate herp specimens and have an inherent distaste to wantonly destroying them when frozen rodents, turtle chow, chicken, earthworms and almost any other food items abound in great quantities.

No, the only reason to feed a turtle to another turtle is because you have a sick fascination with death. Why don't you just go watch faces of death and then try out some of the techniques on your neighbors or grandparents.