Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First off I am sorry this is so long, I just need to vent.

I live in Lethbridge (Deathbridge), AB where there is only one vet that I have been able to find that sees reptiles. I've been having problems with my leo for the last 2-3 months so I decided to take her in. He seemed nice and fairly knowledgeable. However, $70 dollars later I still don't really know whats wrong with her, and don't think he fixed the problem. He told me that if I had any problems to call as soon as possible to have her brought in. I called today to ask some questions and he is out of town for the next week.

I know I've already stated my problems and I have been given many good responses. You are all very informative and helpfull, and I appologize for all of the questions. Just one more (hopefully). The vet gave me a solution of calcium stuff to injuect in her mouth. Every time I have given it to her 10 minutes later (sorry this is discusting) she pretty much sprays it out the other end. I've been noticing a foul smell from this. Today I gave her some babyfood mixed with calcium and the same thing happened. It wasn't sprayed out but it was green (the baby food was a light yellow to begin with). Is this really bad? I don't know what to do, is there anything I can do with no vet? Here is her story again sorry to repeate myself.

The vet thinks she has a calcium defficency. The symptoms she has are larthargy (she never comes out of her hide), a bit of a shake in her walk, and he said her fingers bend to much. She also had the runs which were very small and very rare. The main thing was that she has ate next to nothing for the last 2-3 months. Besides all of this she seems normal, her tail is still big and plump, her color seems normal, and she sheds on a regular basis.

The vet checked her stomach for impaction by rubbing it and said she seemed fine. But he didn't check for parasites, I wish he would have. He also gave her 2 ingections one I know had vitamin D and calcium, I'm not sure of the other. He mentioned she might be trying to lay sterill eggs, which would be very bad for her because she is so weak from the calcium diffeciency. He also said if I noticed bumps to rush her in to see him. This is hard to do since he's not in town. I'm not sure if she does have bumps, I might just be imagening it. Where he gave her the needels (where the bumps may be) and her back legs are a shade darker than normal.

I'll just say everything in her enclosure: calcium in a bowl, 2 hides (one kept moist), a basking light, a UV light, reptile carpet (I just switched from sand), a big water dish, a bowl with mealworms, and a couple crickets just in case. The temp is between 87 to 92.

Sorry for the bad spelling and thanks again for any input it is greatly appreciated,

Lisa

May I suggest takeing the leo to a local show. In my opinion if the VET isnt a herpetologist he cannot be much help alot of vets that see reptiles have basic knowledge that just expand thier offering to the community by takeing in more species and kinds of animals. Only plus on a VET is they can get special medication to treat the animal but not everything is fixed by medicine. Id take my Leo to the show and ask a few breeders here in Florida the reptile community seems to be real nice and actually care for the animals for the most part. If no one at the show can help you for free then id suggest takeing it to a vet. Dont get me wrong there are occasions that the vet is best im just saying a alternative.. Back when i had Burmese Pythons i was having a problem with my snakes keeping thier eye caps threw shed.. So every month of 2 i was at a show haveing a pro take them out for me. I didnt trust my self to do it you have to have nerves of steel and a steady hand. My point is someone with gecko's and experience can be more helpful then a vet with basic knowledge you can get out of a book.
Jason

Unfortunately Lethbridge is in the booneys, not many shows of any sort out here. As much as I would love to fly to Toronto or something, being a student at the moment doesn't give many oppertunities to do so. I really wish there was another reptile vet out here.

Lisa

Ummmmmm where's Lethbridgehehehe? Are you in Ontario? Do you know of any breeders in your area? They might be able to direct you to a good herp vet. It took me a long time to find a good vet. When i took my first leo in she did everything including some ultrasound thing and a fecal test. If you can't find another vet before the other one gets back, i'd call him or show up with a fecal and ask that it gets tested. From what your describing, it does sound like parasites or infection, a calcium definecy doesn't seem, to me, to be the cause of her smelly poops.

This site is great for describing symptoms of illness:

http://www.drgecko.com/intparasites.htm

Sometimes arming yourself with alot of information helps when dealing with people.

Goodluck, i hope she gets better
Red

>>Unfortunately Lethbridge is in the booneys, not many shows of any sort out here. As much as I would love to fly to Toronto or something, being a student at the moment doesn't give many oppertunities to do so. I really wish there was another reptile vet out here.
>>
>>Lisa
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

Lethbridge is in Southern Alberta, there is ablsolutly nothing here. Not only do I not know of any breeders in my area, I don't even know of another person who owns a repitle... in the whole city. There are a few pet stores, all of which I have had bad experiences with, and just the one vet who sees reptiles. My home town Calgary is closest, so if this vet can't do anything I'm going on a road trip. I just went to that web site, it's awsome, very informative.

Her poop wasn't smelly before I gave her the stuff from the vet, just very small and rare. I really hope she gets better too, thanks yet again for your response and encouragement

Lisa

hi, well i think i'll need to start learning more about Canada LOL, i had no clue you were in Alberta. Now if this poop started After your trip to the vet then i appoligize. I thought it was like that beforehand. It must be the stuff your now feeding it. I'm not sure what else to suggest except to offer mealworms and return to the vet to get a fecal just to be safe. My larger male isn't eating much at all....he's still nice and fat though, still wanders around in the evenings. I offer him meaworms every two days and he'll eat afew here and there.

The weather here is getting more mild (rain instead of snow WOOOHOO) and i've had to turn down all my under tank heaters this morning cause the temps spiked over 95 degrees overnight. This started two days ago and i've noticed a HUGE increase in everyones eating. Maybe its just the cold....and yours will start eating again. I do know that my other gecko became more stressed out when i started doing the drop stuff on his nose thing...

I wish you all the best
Red

>>Lethbridge is in Southern Alberta, there is ablsolutly nothing here. Not only do I not know of any breeders in my area, I don't even know of another person who owns a repitle... in the whole city. There are a few pet stores, all of which I have had bad experiences with, and just the one vet who sees reptiles. My home town Calgary is closest, so if this vet can't do anything I'm going on a road trip. I just went to that web site, it's awsome, very informative.
>>
>>Her poop wasn't smelly before I gave her the stuff from the vet, just very small and rare. I really hope she gets better too, thanks yet again for your response and encouragement
>>
>>Lisa
-----
Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

The poop beforhand was small and a little runny sometimes, but not a spary and not unusually smelly. Ahh the joys of talking about poop (jk). I just tried to hand feed her some crikets and she cringed and hid away from them, it's so sad and frustrating. It would be nice if it is just the cold, but then a gain it's allways been cold here and this is the first time I have had problems. I think I'm going to try parizap, ever heard of it working?

The vet I saw also said that mealworms are definately not as good as crikets, but I have heard of people feeding only mealworms. Oh and don't worry, as much as I love Canada I don't blame you for not knowing about Lethbridge, it's a city I wish I knew nothing about. Thanks as usual,

Lisa

HEHEHE, i'm a personal support worker, poop is 90% of what my job concists of LOL. Most people don't realize how important bowel health is, for humans and animals. I've never heard of parizap but its worth a try.

I so do not agree with your vet. I feed mealworms as a staple with silkworms, butterworms and the occational waxworm. Crickets can carry parasites, i imagine any insect can, but i prefer mealworms. They are easy to breed, don't smell and are quiet! Plus they don't take chunks out of my geckos like crickets will.....those suckers are nasty!

I live out in the boonies too, its not even considered a town, but a hamlet. I love Canada too, but i'm sure glad to see green...the weather has started to become more mild, with rain instead of snow...we can actually see the driveway LOL.

Red

>>The poop beforhand was small and a little runny sometimes, but not a spary and not unusually smelly. Ahh the joys of talking about poop (jk). I just tried to hand feed her some crikets and she cringed and hid away from them, it's so sad and frustrating. It would be nice if it is just the cold, but then a gain it's allways been cold here and this is the first time I have had problems. I think I'm going to try parizap, ever heard of it working?
>>
>>The vet I saw also said that mealworms are definately not as good as crikets, but I have heard of people feeding only mealworms. Oh and don't worry, as much as I love Canada I don't blame you for not knowing about Lethbridge, it's a city I wish I knew nothing about. Thanks as usual,
>>
>>Lisa
-----
Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

Certainly going to a show and asking the breeders there some questions is a good idea, actually bringing a sick gecko, with an unknown illness to a show, not so good an idea. Personally, as a vendor, if you show up at my table with a sick gecko, you will be politely asked to leave. The last thing I want to do is expose my geckos to what ever the sick gecko may have. Suppose it affects a gecko I dont sell, which in turn brings it home to my colony? Personally, I don't let people at the shows hold my geckos either, which at times gets me funny looks, but since I don't know what other animals the people have been holding at the shows, they sure aren't touching mine........
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Sam
Gecko Den
Email Me

That is understandable. But not everyone may think like you. Why not step away from your table for a second to take a look? How would you feel if you needed help and someone told you to leave? I understand not allowing people to hold your gecko's. They are very fragile. BUT if i was looking to buy and i asked to hold one and you told me no you wouldnt get the funny face youd get the thanks for your time.. Especially as a gecko breeder id think youd be concerned about all gecko's not just your own??
Well im not looking for a fight just you singled me out so i had to do the same.
Jason

Honestly, if you can't see that it is my concern for the geckos that prompts my "no handling" policy, then you would be welcome to not purchase from me, I would actually prefer it.... Have you not seen or read about the effects of a disease like crypto can have on entire collections? Bringing a sick gecko to a show is plain irresponsible, period.

Besides which, most breeders aren't Vet's and aren't qualified to diagnose the animal. I never said that I wouldn't be helpful if someone came and asked a question, I said that sick animals need not be brought by my table. I would be interested in hearing the thoughts of other breeders on the board as well. Let's not forget the added stress that you are suggesting be inflicted upon an already ill gecko by bringing it to a show and walking around for several hours taking it in and out of it's container to show to all these people. Honestly I think it would be a waste of time as the same results could be had by asking questions here, as the original poster did, without putting the risks to the already sick animal and any healthy ones that are exposed.....
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Sam
Gecko Den
Email Me

I understand what you are saying and agree. BUT im not going to everyone i see with a reptile shirt on to diagnose and hold my sick gecko. Lets remember i was offering my opinion to someone with a sick gecko. If thier is no vet in you area or if you dont have money to take it to a vet remember not everyones rich or the vet is stumpted. Asking info on the computer is not going to help too much unless they come with detailed pics of the problem then it still will be hard to give a proper diagnosis because it could be internal. So I suggested for someone to take thier sick gecko to a show and ask for assistance from a PROFESSIONAL. Try to keep the stress to a minimum on the little sick guy, keeping him at home with no help isnt gonna save his live.
Jason

Before this becomes a long drawn out thread........
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Sam
Gecko Den
Email Me

I couldn't agree with Sam more! It is not a good idea to knowingly bring a sick animal where it could come in contact with another one. There are too many illnesses that reptiles can carry (perhaps even airborne) that could cause an epidemic. Besides, every reptile show I vend at has very strict policies against attendees bringing in herps from the outside for that very reason.
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

...or any other place where other reptiles could possibly become sick from that one exposure. Just like a sick dog shouldn't be taken to the park, where it could meet other dogs.

If you or anyone else wants to ask for a breeder's opinion on an illness, we have the internet for that.

http://www.parazap.com/

i don't know if it will help, but i don't see how it could hurt at all. i had a sick rankins dragon...the week after i brought him home from a show he started to show signs of illness. really smelly gross runny poo--really smelly skin--lethargic--no appetite--and at the time i was unable to get to a vet. so i went online and ordered some of this stuff. i fugured it was worth a try. you could shake their crix in it or hand feed it to them in a pipette or syringe if they won't eat (i would suggest that anyway just so you can be sure they are getting the right dosage.) i treated him (and all my other lizards at the same time just in case there was contamination) i did it for a week and he cleared right up! i don't know if he had a parasite or not but he's been tested since with no sign. if anything, it should help stimulate your poor gecko appetite.

it's kind of expensive but you really get a lot of the stuff and it's much much cheaper then paying out your nose for the vet to not tell you anything and then paying for medicine that is going to make your baby sick. i like to use it on any new herps i bring into my home while they are in quarantine, so i'm glad i have it around.

good luck,

amanda

Wow it sounds like a miracle cure if it works. I'm going to post asking if anyone has tried it on their leos. Thanks for the advice,

Lisa

You really should find a vet and get a fecal exam done. Try this link and see if you can find one:
www.anapsid.org/vets/canalberta.html
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Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos
www.goldengategeckos.com

Nope no listings in Lethbridge, I'm pretty sure there is just the one vet out here who sees reptiles. I'm going to take in a fecal sample, but if he can't tell me anything Rexy and I are off to Calgary. Thanks again,

Lisa

Thanks again everyone for all your helpful replies. I'll keep you posted on her progress and what working and whats not.

Lisa