Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Both of these female Peruvian Rainbows look and act gravid. The male was all over them for two months. They spent most of that time hiding under the flowerpots and I never saw actual mating. The darker female laid a pile of slugs last year.

This is one of my female Isla Marajo Rainbows, epicrates cenchria barbouri. She is just mature this year and "looks' gravid but she is pretty stout and it is hard to tell. This one is definitely just iffy.

These two are both around 57 months old are both proven.

This one is an old proven breeder I bought two years ago. She did not produce last year and I am not sure about her this year.

The larger one in this PIC was WC and over 6 feet long when I got her in 1992. She produced several litters from 1994 to 1999. She has been bred several times this year and looks gravid for the first time since 1999. The smaller one is 4 years old from Dallas Zoo bloodlines and I have only had her for 18 months. She was probably not mature last year and I only saw one breeding this year.

This one (the one underneath and on the right) is almost 7 years old and has only produced one litter in the past. She has been bred several times this year.

She is almost 8 years old and has produced a couple times in the past.

This one is a sister to the previous one. She has been bred and looks gravid. She has been very prolific.

This one is 45 months old and small enough that 13 lumps are easy to feel.

This one is 58 months old. She produced litters the last two years. She has palpable lumps and acts gravid.

This is a 22 month old 3/4 Diamond Python. My 5 year old male full Diamond has been after her this year. She is large enough but I do not expect eggs from her this year. Maytbe next year though?

How many Peruvian and Marajo island babies do you think could produce this year, jeff?

Ricardo,
. Thanks very much. If I am extremely lucky I could get two good litters of Peruvians and one smaller litter of Isla Marajos. The Peruvians were a bust last year and the Isla Marajos may still be too young. I would be happy to get anything from these snakes.
Jeff

>>How many Peruvian and Marajo island babies do you think could produce this year, jeff?

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Looks much like the so-called Peruvians, but smaller. I like these.

Linda,
. The PIC does not show it very well but my Isla Marajos are extremely dark. When they were babies they were colored like little BRBs but they get darker each time they shed. The best words to describe the color is burgandyish reddish black. Mine are growing pretty rapidly and i think they will end up longer and heavier than most of my BRBs. I have limited knowledge abaout this subspecies. I have talked to several people who have seen them in the Isla Marajo area and report that they get very big and heavy and dark burgundy colored. Mine seem to have scale counts like BRBs but they have more of a pudgy roundish shape to their heads.
Jeff

>>Looks much like the so-called Peruvians, but smaller. I like these.

They look sweet man! Have fun and best of luck working with them! Good stuff!

Ever since I got my copy of Ross and Marzec's classic I've been fascinated by gaigei and originally that is what I was looking for (if you look at that picture you'll see my inspiration for an enclosure). At the time East Bay Vivarium had a supposed Peruvian and I went to look at it. They wanted 400 bucks for this very muddy looking snake. The guy showed me a beautiful BRB and I bought my male. Your's look beautiful. I hope they produce for you (as well as your other projects).
A couple of questions if I may:
What is the largest number of neonates you've had to care for at once?
When you palpate a female do you just let her move through your hands? Are the lumps obvious?
I'm somewhat confused on slugs. If a female ovulates and does not mate with a male I just figured the ova would be passed or consumned. What would cause a slug to form and grow?
Thanks and good luck!
Paul

Paul,
. That picture in Ross and Marzec's book is what has caused most of the excitment and also some of the misconceptions about Peruvian Rainbows. That book was the "bible" for breeding boids and in the late 80s and early 90s we were starved for good books about boids and boid breeding. I just about wore my copy of the book out reading and rereading every detail in it. People saw how pretty that PIC in the book was and got excited about Peruvian Rainbows. The myth which still persists is that all Peruvian Rainbows have to be as pretty as the snake in that picture. The same PIC was used (but reversed) in a magazine article about 10 years ago and it was labled as a Brazilian Rainbow Boa. As we have seen here on this forum and elsewhere there is much disagreement about this subspecies and even about whether it is a valid subspecies. What I know is that I have 2.3 snakes which look and act much like Brazilian Rainbow Boas but they were sold to me as Peruvian Rainbow Boas and they have noticeably larger scales and also have scale counts which match up with the original description of gaigei. I also have looked at a whole bunch of snakes offered for sale as Peruvian Rainbows but with smaller scales and scale counts that match up with the description of cenchria cenchria.
. The most babies I have had at one time was over 150. I have had 125 or more to care for several different times. I hope that noone has looked at the PICs I posted last night and calculated that Jeff is gonna have 200 babies this year, cause it ain't gonna happen. Keeping Rainbow Boas healthy and happy is pretty easy. Getting them to breed takes quite a bit of effort. Getting good litters out of all of them that breed and later seem gravid is about impossible. When I palpate gravid females I do let them crawl through my hands. They are so muscular that when they tense up their muscles it is difficult to feel the lumps. If you are patient you will catch the snake when it is lazily crawling back into a cage after you have had it out and you can get a pretty good feel for the masses. There have been several times that I have been able to count the number of live babies and also slugs in a litter. The slugs feel a little more solid. I think you may be thinking about ova as small microscopic structures which they are but they are inside large masses of mostly fatty tissue which are actually analogous to a Pythons's egg, just without a shell on it. When the snake ovualtes is has to move these large structures into the oviduct where they develop just like a Python's egg developes after it has been laid. There is passage of gases and fluid across the membrane just like a Python's egg passes gases through the eggshell and also absorbs water through the shell. The conventional wisdom is that a snake cannot digest or resorb these egg bodies out of the oviduct but I think that is what does sometimes happen. I have had snakes look and act gravid and not feed or lose any weight for months and then they pass a large ugly black messy stool and start eating again without laying any babies. Slugs are usually described as unfertilized ova but IMO they can also be fertilized ova that died early in gestation. I have dissected a couple of gravid boas and also sliced through quite a few slugs. Inside the gravid Boas the ova look like very large egg yolks and are suspended inside the oviduct like stuffed sausages. Slicing through slugs after they have been laid I have never found any structures that looked like developing snakes but have found what look like the spot on an egg yolk that is the developing baby. When I bred colubrids and later breeding Jungle Carpet Pythons I dissected a whole bunch of eggs (mostly dead ones) and learned enough to make me think that there is not enough factaul information covering all of this subject in any books. I do think that Boa's egg masses that are not passed into the oviduct and not fertilized are just digested or resorbed or whatever term more accurately fits the process that occurs.
Jeff

>>Ever since I got my copy of Ross and Marzec's classic I've been fascinated by gaigei and originally that is what I was looking for (if you look at that picture you'll see my inspiration for an enclosure). At the time East Bay Vivarium had a supposed Peruvian and I went to look at it. They wanted 400 bucks for this very muddy looking snake. The guy showed me a beautiful BRB and I bought my male. Your's look beautiful. I hope they produce for you (as well as your other projects).
>>A couple of questions if I may:
>>What is the largest number of neonates you've had to care for at once?
>>When you palpate a female do you just let her move through your hands? Are the lumps obvious?
>>I'm somewhat confused on slugs. If a female ovulates and does not mate with a male I just figured the ova would be passed or consumned. What would cause a slug to form and grow?
>>Thanks and good luck!
>>Paul

Over 150. I imagine once you have the system in place it is somewhat easier but you'd still have to spend a considerable amount of time in your snake room. And I was feeling overwhelmed by 15! This year things should go much smoother (if in fact she is pregnant). I learned alot from my first experience (being basically unprepared creates a very steep learning curve).
Thanks again for all the information.
Paul

It seems I saw a pic of one like looked Peruvian. ( Remember, I'm a beginner)

Looks like there may be some available soon!

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Should be a prolific year, yet again for ya!

and let me know! I'd love to snatch a pair from you this year!!

Charlotte

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